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It's Official: No Longhorn Server On Tap | |
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| Time: 14:59 EST/19:59 GMT | News Source: eWeek | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Microsoft has decided to skip a Windows server release to coincide with the Longhorn client and instead jump directly to Blackcomb, company officials confirmed Friday. Until recently, Microsoft has been talking up plans to synchronize its Windows server and client releases, starting with the next major version of Windows, code-named Longhorn. | ||
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| #1 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 11/8/2002 3:55:31 PM |
| If it was official that server/client will be synched when Allchin said it a few weeks ago, does today's "official"ness mean that in a few more weeks or months, this can't officially change again so that there is a Longhorn server synched with a Longhorn client? |
| #2 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 11/8/2002 4:10:08 PM |
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Wow... I wonder if any Software Assurance customers are bristling at this news....
The spokeswoman said that the change was due to what customers want... hmmm... I really doubt that! I am much more inclined to believe it was due to the project timetable starting to slip (for what it's worth... it's not uncommon in any software development...). I like the linked article about OS X getting a JFS. Welcome to the 90s, Apple! |
| #3 By 1401 (151.213.97.137) at 11/8/2002 4:39:28 PM |
| I agree with #1 - but I think it is a good move. The upcoming .NET Server will surely be a good enough product to keep running until then... |
| #4 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 11/8/2002 4:45:04 PM |
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bluvg, Billy was talking pretty confidently about Longhorn last night on Charlie Rose; of course, he always does. And it was apparent that there were still a lot of hurdles to face, even internal resistance to the concepts, but he said he thought the technological questions would be answered in the next several months, with a release date of a year or two year.
Do I beleive him? Hell, no. But we're supposed to take him at his word, right? Wasn't .Net supposed to be out 9 months ago? I can't really imaginemuch of the promise of Longhorn being realized without the accompanying technology on the server-side/backend, but oh well, who really knows what the feature set will be. |
| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 11/8/2002 5:12:18 PM |
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sodajerk--yeah, I agree. :O No surprise to hear the server platform get behind schedule. In fact, it looks like we're back to where we were a few months ago--the new file system would debut in Blackcomb (which as I understood it was the next server release after .NET, and Longhorn was a client-release only...).
This does muddy the waters of what the Longhorn client will offer. The new file system seemed to be the crowning feature of the next Windows release, so what will they have to offer without it? A GPU-accelerated GUI? I hope they have something substantial up their sleeve, or this might be the perfect Windows release to skip. I wonder how far along the new file system is. Lots of others have tried and failed (or had qualified successes) with this sort of implementation, so maybe they're finding out the project is even bigger than they had planned. |
| #6 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 11/8/2002 5:29:38 PM |
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bluvg, well, Billy is saying the main advance will be answering the question: "where are my files?" ...which sounds like LH has the filesystem to me... To me it sounds like this interface will be inappropriate for a lot of power users if it doesn't provide more traditional interfaces as well; for example, Bill was saying stuff like: "Every object or document should have the same commands that you can perform on them. There should be one interface for everything, not different interfaces for different files, etc..." No, they shouldn't, Bill. They are different objects. I don't want an idiot-proofed OS, I want a more powerful one.
Of course, if AD isn't running on a LH server and other backend services are not provided through LH, because we're going to be asked to buy .Net server which was supposed to be out last year--for the first year or two of LH... What! Sounds like a waste and a dumbdowned system. So, anyway, Bill was definitely not backing down on the file system; I just think some people's expectations will be let down--I guess a fairly similar file system with some additional metadata, and what will really be augmented is the search functionality--slightly more advanced, query based interface but at the same time dumb-downed (for example: "Find Images created yesterday" instead os specifying a date range and *.jpg or something.) So what... Yukon is going to run on a non-Cairo server system? ... phhht. This post was edited by sodajerk on Friday, November 08, 2002 at 17:31. |
| #7 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 11/8/2002 5:44:28 PM |
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Yukon is made to run on .NET Server 2003 first in the form of SQL Server (2003?).
The timetable for the release of the next SQL has always been for .NET, AFAIK. From there, a version of that DB will be used as the next file system (so called, WinFS). |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 11/8/2002 6:29:59 PM |
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bas, in theory, a considerably advanced and innovative file system could change the entire nature of how you interact with files and file data and could bring on a whole new interface. Who knows what we'll really get.
What's important about filesystem? speed, data corruption/integrity, indexing, journaling, metadata... these are some of the important issues related to an OS's file system. By the way, bluvg--HFS+ may now just be getting journaling, but OS X has a pluggable file system so it isn't difficult to get other systems (XFS, POSIX (POSIX is actually a native FS), ReiserFS, etc...) to work with OS X. How is MS's quote/unquote "POSIX-support"? |
| #9 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 11/8/2002 7:16:37 PM |
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NT has pluggable file systems, too.
NT also had a full POSIX subsystem for years, sodajerk. This subsystem was removed in Windows 2000 due to lack of consumer interest. It is now replaced by Microsoft Services for UNIX. |
| #10 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 11/8/2002 7:17:25 PM |
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sodajerk - "How is MS's quote/unquote "POSIX-support"? "
It's been POSIX.1 compliant since NT 3.1. |
| #11 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 11/8/2002 7:22:28 PM |
| I know its there... I used quote/unquote to denote that it is not fully functional and creates extreme problems which is why it doesn't get utilized. I know--I had some recent experience with this. |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 11/8/2002 7:24:00 PM |
| by the way, soda, I see you're avoiding my question: why if you accept that the GPL is not viral, doesn't prevent commercialization, nor does it prevent multi-licensing, why do you support a ban of its use in publicly-funded projects? |
| #13 By 5444 (208.180.131.185) at 11/8/2002 9:24:31 PM |
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Well if Avalon is to fly, WinFS has to fly. about all I can say right now.
Haveing a common file system that is intelligent and searchable is a good thing. even at the Home network level. But this is disappointing to hear that there will be no servers again in the longhorn release. Ponders if Longhorn will become a small release again in 2003/4 timeframe and Blackcomb will be the release in 2005/2006 timeframe. Oh well, we will never figure out MS in a million years;) El |
| #14 By 665 (64.126.91.172) at 11/8/2002 9:35:34 PM |
| #15, I think you are 100% correct with your time table (LH-2003-4 and BC 2005-6) as far as MS is planning. I think Longhorn might actually meet that goal, but I really doubt BC will. At least we should be getting a new beta soon! |
| #15 By 2062 (68.129.127.97) at 11/8/2002 11:41:17 PM |
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Summer 2004: soon after the LH launch winbeta.org announces an update to there NT Switch tool, that allows you to switch LH workstation to LH server....
-gosh |
| #16 By 7754 (209.98.24.241) at 11/9/2002 1:07:06 AM |
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Sodajerk, what file systems are supported by Apple? NT is able to use multiple file systems as well, but only FAT and NTFS are supported (and also HPFS on an NT 4 upgrade from NT 3.51). Does Apple actually support Reiser FS on OS X?
As far as POSIX goes, I only know this--I've spoken with others that have used it without issue, and that the NSA guidelines recommend that it be removed. |
| #17 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 11/9/2002 4:21:59 AM |
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sodajerk - Hmm, I'm not avoiding many questions. I simply had more important things to do today.
"why if you accept that the GPL is not viral, doesn't prevent commercialization, nor does it prevent multi-licensing, why do you support a ban of its use in publicly-funded projects? " You are confusing use in development with use as in end-user. The GPL allows for commercial use as in end-user, but not commercial use as in development. This is a pretty common distortion used by GPL adherents. BTW, I didn't support it's ban... I simply believe that any software licensed with the GPL must be dual-licensed with a commercial friendly license for some sum to encourage further innovation in the markets. |
| #18 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 11/9/2002 4:29:22 AM |
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If anything, you should expect more WP-esque technology, joe. I somehow think that any admin worth his salary won't have much of a migraine installing WPA'ed servers. This post was edited by BobSmith on Saturday, November 09, 2002 at 04:30. |
| #19 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 11/9/2002 4:33:08 AM |
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I'm all for banning GPL. A royalty free, non exclusive use license would be much preferred. In other words - you are free to do whatever the heck you want with this code and are no obligation to do or not do anything with it. This is freedom. The restrictions of the GPL, are restrictions. I find it odd that FSF who stands for freedom and all of that crap would have such a requirement. If "information wants to be free", then it'll be free with or without a license requiring it to be free.
Flame on. ;-) This post was edited by BobSmith on Saturday, November 09, 2002 at 04:33. |
| #20 By 9549 (68.44.192.174) at 11/9/2002 6:22:08 PM |
| Longhorn was added to the stream of theings when the anti-trust case didn`t look like it was going in Ms` favor. Now that they won I think they pushed Longhorn back to a somewhat minor release and placed Blackcomb back on the burner as the next major release. Longhorn will be the final legacy supported OS and Blackcomb will be all new technology. That gives companies enough time to lag behind on their old computers and legacy support while they sync the client/server in Blackcomb. |
| #21 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 11/9/2002 8:16:37 PM |
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CTO: I hate to say it, but what are you saying is completely illogical... why would they make Longhorn a major release just because of the trial?
Either way, the next major release will be released around the same time anyway. |
| #22 By 8273 (4.47.64.29) at 11/10/2002 3:03:48 AM |
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The timeline of the anti-Microsoft person:
12:01: First thoughts of how MS is evil 12:02:Thinks: “Linux is being oppressed by MS” 12:05: Thinks: “Damn it, I hate having to pay for my own lunch, it should be free” 12:30: Turns on the radio 12:31: Thinks: "Hey, I like this song" 12:32: Thinks: “Damn the RIAA, they are violating my free speech by saying I am not allowed to copy this song from somebody that I know who has it.” 12:33: Thinks: “Damn MS for creating wma. They created a file format that allows the music industry to create DRM files will not allow me to copy this song, thereby violating my free speech. And thinking of free speech, this Palladium thing, even though I know nothing about it, is M$’s way of trying to control me.” 1:00: Thinks: “MS is an evil monopoly that controls all computers.” 1:01: Thinks: “All real computer users use Linux/BSD/Solaris/OSX.” 1:02: Thinks: “Even though MS controls all computers, Linux/BSD/Solaris/OSX has a large market share, and that is not a contradiction of what monopoly means.” 1:03: Damn, I am late for my favorite TV show. 5:30: (don’t have a job, still watching TV) 6:00: Time for dinner. Thinks: “Damn it, I hate having to pay for my own dinner, it should be free.” 6:30: Dinner that I had to pay for myself finally finished. Run into one of few friends on street, start yelling at friend for using Windows. Tell friend reasons for not using Windows, which includes that they are forced to upgrade every year. 6:31: Friend says “I did not have anybody forcing me to upgrade” 6:32: Reply: “But M$ put out a new version, so you must upgrade” 6:33: Friend says: “I am still using Windows 2000, I did not need to upgrade” 6:34: Reply: “You do not know what you are talking about, M$ forced you to upgrade” 6:35: Friend says: “No, they did not” 6:36: Reply: “They never said there would be a version of Longhorn server, they did not give you a version of Longhorn server, so therefore M$ is evil. They never announced a ship date of Longhorn, nor did they announce a ship date for Blackcomb, but it is later than they expected, and therefore, M$ is evil. All Windows server people are using NT4, so M$ is evil. Meanwhile, Linux kernel version 2.1, or 3.0, or whatever they decided to call it this week slipped another 6 months, but they are slipping it for the good of all humanity, therefore, M$ is evil” 6:37: Friend says: “What?” 6:38: Reply: “You heard me” 6:39: Friend says: “You are F-ed in the head” 6:40: Reply: “You do not understand, if M$ does it, then it is bad, if Linux does it, it is good. I am going to watch the movie “Antitrust”, the movie that exposed the evilness of M$ to the entire world, even though only 12 people actually saw it.” 10:30: Movie over, time for beer. Thinks: “Damn it, I hate having to pay for my own beer, it should be free.” 12:30: Ready to pass out, going to bed. 12:00 noon: Finally wake up… (Repeat as necessary) |
| #23 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 11/10/2002 3:09:33 AM |
| Anittrust - that was quite a funny movie. "You're either alive or dead, a one or a zero!" The use of Java throughout was rather comical also. If they were trying to mock Microsoft, they could have at least used C++ or VB. |
| #24 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 11/10/2002 3:41:29 AM |
| I gotta see that movie (heard it was pretty funny). |
| #25 By 931 (67.35.48.200) at 11/10/2002 8:14:03 AM |
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It was actually a pretty dam good movie. (not exactly all that technically accurate.. but enough for most people) The movie was so clearly made to be based on microsoft and anti microsoft views... but it was pretty entertaining none the less.
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