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Microsoft Shares Climb Nearly 5 Percent | |
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| Time: 18:13 EST/23:13 GMT | News Source: Reuters | Posted By: Todd Richardson | ||
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Microsoft Corp. shares climbed nearly 5 percent on Friday after the world's largest software maker reported record revenue in the first quarter that was up 26 percent from the previous year and analysts raised their full-year earnings estimates. Microsoft shares closed at $53.15, up 4.7 percent from Thursday's close on the Nasdaq stock market, matching the high reached in after-hours trade following the results release late Thursday. | ||
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| #1 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/18/2002 6:47:57 PM |
| Money in my pocket, baby. :-) |
| #2 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/18/2002 8:17:22 PM |
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#2 - I love how you say "democrat" like it's a dirty word.
Taxes do have a purpose you know. And taxation IS in the Constitution... unlike... gee... I don't know... The Drug War, which has been a center piece of Republican politics for 40 years. The United States has one of the lowest overall tax rates of ANY industrialized nation, yet you refer to raising taxes as if Democrats wanted to do it just out of spite. Do you realize how silly that sounds? What you should be mad about is HOW we spend our money. Goverment waste comes in many flavors, and over taxation is a fairly minor one in the big picture. How about losing 200 Billion a year because of laws against consensual crimes. How about a projected 10 to 15 billion dollars for a missile defense system that has absolutely no hope of working, and is proped up by faked tests which the people in power ignore because of the massive political force (aka Republicans) backing it. These are the things you should be mad about... not Democrats trying to get more money for an education system which is clearly lacking. And no, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a free thinking, quasi-objectivist, semi-libertarian. Or FTQOSL for short. :-) See, FTQOSLs are funny in that while they believe that, in general, smaller government is typically better government... there ARE some things that government does best... and even some things that ONLY the government can do. An impotent government is just as bad (if not worse) as one with too much power. |
| #3 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/18/2002 10:26:18 PM |
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#4 - "So...your not a democrat, your a guilty white male suburban liberal?"
Guilty white... huh? What am I guilt of? Liberal? I suppose I have some liberal social values... like the idea that people should be free, and silly stuff like that. "Relax, and since there is no FTQOSL party to vote for one must decide if they are a dem or a pub, simple." Actually, there are many parties out there... although it you typically can only choose between Democrats, Republicans, Greens, and Libertarians. Personally, I find the last two (as different as they are) far less repulsive than the first two. At any rate, there are more choices then those you mentioned. "but the missle defense system stuff makes you sound like our own Agent Mulder..." Well, considering I got my information from a combination of 60 Minutes, Nightline and FrontLine... I think I'm a slightly less of a kook than Mulder. The "tests" setup by the government to show that the system can work were not just staged, but staged to present an incredibly simplified scenario that would be so easy to subvert, it was pointless to even test. When it worked (1 out of the 3 times, mind you), Bush used the tests to justify further spending on a system with basic design flaws. I also get my information from people I know who used to work on these (and about a dozen other) missile shields during the Reagan and Bush #1 administrations. People have been screaming for years that the current system won't work, but we have spent such a massive amount of money on it already that admitting failure has become a worse option than denying reality. #5 - "RMD: Education system is clearly lacking ? You gotta be kidding. They have being pouring more and more money into it for the last decade. Even Clinton said it was his priority." I said lacking... not lacking money. (We clearly are not lacking in educational funds, although those funds are NOT distributed equally: http://www.edweek.org/ew/ewstory.cfm?slug=15oecd.h16) We consistently score quite poorly in math, science, and virtually every other subject when compared to many other nations. My point was that our schools, on average, do not result in intelligent, well rounded graduates... and Democrats are attempting to fix this by spending money. Will it work? I don't know... I guess it depends on where that money goes. Personally, I think our education system is failing because our culture is not inductive to learning and excelling academically. We value Barry Bonds more than Carl Sagan. We "breed" children who think that being intelligent is lame, and being an idiot is cool. Ignorance is the "in" thing in many schools... and that is absolutely pathetic. Kids are ostracized if they show interest in a subject other than gym. If we made scientists the heroes in movies instead of guys with big guns, perhaps children would be more motivated to learn and excel. The American public is one of the most stupid "publics" in the industrialized world. Do you really think that a society whos average citizen can't explain the scientific process is going to foster an new generation of children who can? |
| #4 By 7711 (68.45.63.108) at 10/18/2002 10:56:48 PM |
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#8...
"...immoral spoilt brats brakes into your house..." Spoiled and breaks are the correct spellings. I'm not an english teacher, just a stupid physics teacher, but even I can spell. "I personally found out during my college years that spending time in a classroom and listening to a teacher was a waste of time, so I stopped going to school and only showed up for tests. It worked perfectly for me." If your spelling (as a college graduate) is an example of how it worked perfectly for you, I weep for our future. |
| #5 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/18/2002 11:20:17 PM |
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mhfm - I see someone has spent a little bit too much time sniffing glue.
No original thoughts? No ability to think for yourself? I've heard all of your arguments before. They are the same ones propogated by the media, recited on Rush Limbaugh. It's the most unpatriotic crap I have ever had the displeasure of hearing, and it will give me a great amount of pleasure to walk into my polling place come November and place my vote for anybody but a Republican. |
| #6 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 10/18/2002 11:29:08 PM |
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I would GLADLY pay 50% of my salary to help fix our education system... IF I THOUGHT FOR ONE SECOND THAT THE SYSTEM WOULD BE FIXED AFTER MY CONTRIBUTION. However, the tired generic reason of "education" has raised taxes umpteen times... and the problem only worsens. One thing is CERTAIN, the current education system is WELL FUNDED. The problem is the money never makes it to the children. Its soaked up through layer upon layer of administrators and even teachers.
The sad reality is that everyone in the education system is out to protect themselves, and the children are forgotten. The teachers (lacking in ability far too often) cuddle up in their unions and the children lose. The administrators cuddle up with their advanced degrees (and their matching advanced salaries, of course) and take take take. C'mon, does a county-level school administrator need an advanced degree? Of course not. They simply need the ability to funnel money to the children. Any half-ass small office manager has enough skill for that kind of work. And if none of the above views got your blood boiling, maybe this next opinion will... Teachers are NOT overpaid. They get a very decent salary, and work only 10 months per year. They perform an incredible function for society, but the job does NOT deserve $50K or more per year. It deserves $20K-$35K, depending on area of the country. Please don't get me wrong, I have loved ones who are teachers. They should be respected for what they do... but lets stop focusing on them, and all the other distractors from those who are in REAL need... the kids. |
| #7 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 10/18/2002 11:30:19 PM |
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sodablue, my votes will cancel yours on election day. This post was edited by mooresa56 on Friday, October 18, 2002 at 23:36. |
| #8 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/18/2002 11:38:23 PM |
| Just a hunch, but Jagged is likely not 18, so he isn't voting for anybody (forgive me, Jagged, if I guessed incorrectly). As for whether he'll vote for Democrats when he becomes of voting age, is his decision. I'm sure your educated and wise guidance will do little to sway him either way. |
| #9 By 5444 (208.180.140.239) at 10/18/2002 11:51:11 PM |
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Mooresea.
I would disagree, Teachers are the cetral point of our society, We force them in most cases to take more classes than even a Low level Doctor. (in Texas, a k-5 teacher has to take an additional 3 years of specialized training in young teaching) IOW the Requirements of the profession are a High Level profession at blue collar wages. On top of that we require that they have accountability with all the Students through Testing. The issue is that the system is reversed, about 80% of the funds are wasted in the administrative level. instead of Getting and keeping good teachers. I do respect teachers. Most sacrifice a Lifestyle to do something that they love. I couldn't do it that is for sure. El |
| #10 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 10/19/2002 12:47:06 AM |
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eldoen - for the most part, i share your sentiments about teachers.
However, I have to take issue with your statement that we force teachers to take more classes than low-level doctors. First of all, I have no idea what you mean by a "low-level" doctor. My wife is a physician, and I'm here to tell you that the two professions are not similar in the slightest. Being a physician is the hardest job on the planet. The school (8 years of college) and residency (4-5 years) and fellowship (1-2 years optional) is the most grueling thing I have EVER been involved with. Also, the amount of financial risk in becoming a physician is absolutely amazing. These smarter-than-most individuals forego a "regular" job after undergrad and opt to take on ~$100,000 in student loans (and student loans for professionals are not like undergrad loans. Grants are nonexistent, and government-subsidized loans are rare). Once out of training, the money is good (but getting worse thanks to HMOs), but it still takes several years to just break even. On top of the long years and financial risk, you add an unbelievable emotional stress, dealing intimately with sick and dying patients. That extra burden alone is worth a physician's salary. So, although I value our teachers... they are in no way comparable to the physicans that deal with so much. You think teachers have it bad with the threat of gunfire? Think of the risk to doctors! Threat of gunfire is just the beginning. Add to the list the threat of needle pricks (disease), risk of frivilous lawsuit ($), risk of legitimate lawsuit ($) even while your job is next to impossible. Teachers are not "forced" to take additional college-level classes. They do so, on their own... usually receiving incremental salary increases for each class completed. In other words, what you describe as "force", I describe as being paid for with higher compensation. Lets face it, we have a system that doesn't reward EXCEPTIONAL teachers. We also have a system that doesn't weed out INEFFECTIVE teachers. And all we can seem to agree to do about it is to simply reward ALL teachers, good and bad. THAT is NOT the answer. This post was edited by mooresa56 on Saturday, October 19, 2002 at 00:55. |
| #11 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/19/2002 1:07:30 AM |
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mhfm - No. Arguing like an idiot = not-patriotic
mooresa56 - "Teachers are NOT overpaid. They get a very decent salary, and work only 10 months per year. They perform an incredible function for society, but the job does NOT deserve $50K or more per year. It deserves $20K-$35K, depending on area of the country. " I do not disagree with your initial premise that our Education system is faulty. I do not disagree that the money is misappropriated. It is. However, one of the problems that I've seen is that every proposed solution only causes more problems. Such as your solution here. Let me explain something to you: TEACHING IS A FULL TIME 12 MONTH A YEAR JOB! Why do you think teachers only work 10 months per year? What do you think they should be doing during the summer? Sleeping all day, watching TV? No, Teachers should be doing the same thing that I do in my career in technology. CONTINUED LEARNING! Through the summer the teachers should be working to improve the school, the curriculuum, their knowledge and so forth. I spend 2-4 weeks a year in IT training, above and beyond the books and journals I'm reading. My company pays for that, why shouldn't we have the same courtesy for teachers? As far as $20-30k/year. You know what, FAT chance. I wouldn't work for that as it's not enough to live in most cities, I don't know many who would. I can make $20k a year just working at McDonalds, I can make $40k as an administrative assistant for an office. I'd say $35k to start, and I expect teachers with 10 years of experience to be pulling in at least 60K/year. Otherwise you will continue the problem we already have, qualified individuals will leave the education market and go somewhere else. I almost pursued a career in secondary education, and it was the low pay and the bureacracy that pretty much convinced me it would be a bad idea. It didn't use to be that way... It used to be teaching provided a living wage, now it no longer does. "Please don't get me wrong, I have loved ones who are teachers. They should be respected for what they do... but lets stop focusing on them, and all the other distractors from those who are in REAL need... the kids. " Your attitude is pretty much what is wrong with the Republican party. If I had more time I'd tell you the story of the burnt pancake picker so you could better understand. |
| #12 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/19/2002 1:11:57 AM |
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mooresa56 - "Lets face it, we have a system that doesn't reward EXCEPTIONAL teachers. We also have a system that doesn't weed out INEFFECTIVE teachers. "
And you want to pay them minimum wage. Amazing how that solution isn't going to work, isn't it? |
| #13 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 10/19/2002 10:27:09 AM |
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What you don't realize is that our justice system doesn't work (not just the courts, but the police, jailing, etc...). And instead of looking at a system that works tremendously well, ie, the Japs, whose policemen cary nothing more than a nightstick, no gun, no cuffs, we continue to do more of the same thing.
Also, our k-12 schooling system just does not work well at all. As said before, we have one of the worst educational systems (although, our college system is one of the best in the world). You can spend all the damn money you want to on it, but things just don't get spent the right way in America.... and not just for the educational system, for nearly everything our government does.... why is it that I pay money out of my check for social security, yet I will get nothing later in life when I retire? It's my money, it should be kept for me, no one should be touching it, yet the goernment does touch it. Medicare flat out stinks, yet we spend all this money on it. Personally, I believe that medical bills should be payed by the governemnt, it should be one of those fundamental things that a government is for. I support George W. Bush, I think he's doing a pretty good job, however, Jeb Bush is doing a flat out crappy job here in Florida. Education spending has gone down 5% every year he's been in office, he's been trying to privatize government agencies, which have consistantly been less effective here every year he has been in office. This isn't about republicans and democrats, they are all just politicians, and all of them are lying cheaters. They are the tax collectors of ancient Rome. Just because one person is a member of one party doesn't make them the same as every other person in that party. I'm a registered republican, does that mean I agree with everything my party does? Absolutely not. Does that mean I don't like everything the democrats do? No. Simply, there are just some situations that the ideals of the democratic party are better suited for, and some situations that the ideals of the reublican party are better suited for. |
| #14 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 10/19/2002 10:48:25 AM |
| mhfm, unless you are going to be even somewhat intelligent, just leave. I'm so sick of people like you, you give America a bad name. |
| #15 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/19/2002 12:23:07 PM |
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#26 - Wow... mhfm... that was really gross.
Too bad late term abortions make up about 1/2 of 1% of all abortions. The vast majority of abortions take place when the egg has only split a few dozen times, and is certainly not human yet. For my views on abortion, check this out: http://www.2think.org/carl_sagan_abortion.shtml At any rate, that's a different argument, and I find it interesting that when you see you're losing the battle on the education argument, you throw in another controversial topic. |
| #16 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/19/2002 12:46:33 PM |
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Oh, and I think we can get an idea of what kind of person mhfm is when we take a headline from the site he linked to for his graphical support on the abortion issue:
"Voters Who Go To Hell – Anyone who knowingly or through indifference votes for someone in opposition to God's will spends eternity in Hell if not sincerely repentant and does not make acceptable restitution." Ah yes... that's one way to convince somebody of your position. Tell them that if they disagree with that you say, they are going to burn for all eternity in a lake of fire. Not to say mhfm is guilty by association, but I have a feeling he shares those sentiments. It kind of remines me of a story I once heard: http://www.rit.edu/~rmd0549/athought_hankandmary.html This post was edited by RMD on Saturday, October 19, 2002 at 12:48. |
| #17 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/19/2002 12:57:47 PM |
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dkg_ctc: Good points!
RMD: That story about Hank is funny. :) |
| #18 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/19/2002 4:13:55 PM |
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mhfm: I hope you do realize you are no different than Osama bin Laden.
JaggedFlame: So how about that Microsoft stock? |
| #19 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/19/2002 6:43:50 PM |
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mhfm: Late term abortions are only done to save the mother's life. They are completely illegal (and, indeed, are considered murder) if done after the 6th month. Have you even read Roe V Wade? If you still think people are murders for doing this, wouldn't you be murdering the mother by not doing it? Why is the mother's life less valuable than the unborn child's?
mhfm: "How many people have I killed ?" Well, using your guilt by association with political party logic, I would say you've killed millions - both directly and indirectly. How do I figure that? Well, the war on drugs claims people in several different ways. First, it kills people by forcing the cost of drugs up so high; thereby giving hardcore addicts the need to steal/kill to get their fix. Second, it kills people by making it impossible to regulate the substances taken, and dramatically increasing the risk of overdose and poisoning. Third, because drugs are so profitable (since they are so expensive), drug lords / dealers are willing to do more or less anything to keep selling drugs. This includes killing - and killing sometimes on very large scales, as the drug lords in Columbia often do. Fourth, drugs are one source (albeit a much smaller one than oil, which Republicans also seem to love to guzzle) of funds for terrorist organizations such as Osama's Gang. If they were legal, their price would be so low it would be pointless to try and use them as a funding source. So, in effect, you're supporting terrorism, and helping Osama fly planes into buildings. So, mhfm, you've killed millions of people by supporting the Republican Party. Do you think Jesus would like that? Speaking of Jesus, you do realize he was what most would consider today a marxist... which is closer to being a democrat than it is to being a Republican! :-) Wow, its fun to turn people's insane chains of "logic" against them. You really should keep some of these thoughts to yourself, because you're giving both Republicans AND Christians a pretty bad name. For more information on the drug war and consensual crimes, check out this little blurb I wrote: http://www.rit.edu/~rmd0549/athought_consensualcrimes.html I guess mhfm hasn't learning anything from our long discussion about religion a few months ago. For a refresher, the entire conversation is logged here: http://www.rit.edu/~rmd0549/athought_evolutionargument.html |
| #20 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/19/2002 8:26:44 PM |
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#41 - Why is it that democrats are murders if some democrats favor abortion rights, but Republicans aren't murders if they favor the war on drugs? Both kill. I don't see the difference.
Well, actually, I do see the difference... until the 6th month (actually, I would say a bit later, but not much... and it's better to be conservative in this case), it is NOT HUMAN... and therefore it's not murder. At any rate, you ignored the fact I mentioned about those 1% of abortions only being done to save the life of the mother. The only reason pro-life people cling to those nasty pictures is because of the shock value... even though they have absolutely nothing to do with abortion rights. Don't you think that's dishonest? Would Jesus approve? I agree that both Republicans and Democrats are supportive of the War on Drugs, but it was an entirely Republican initiative to begin with. It started with Nixon, and has been dramatically escalated during both the Reagan and Bush administrations. (Both of them.) As far as Jesus' politics, perhaps Marxist was too extreme term... but he was (if he existed, of course) a liberal. Here are a few entertaining web pages that use quotes from the Bible to support this theory. (Of course, this is one of the few places Bible quotes can actually be used as evidence, since Jesus only exists in the Bible... imho.) http://pearly6000.tripod.com/htmls/myth-jesus.html http://liberalslikechrist.org/politicalmenu.htm http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/abss/abss0089.htm |
| #21 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/19/2002 11:27:11 PM |
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#45 - Ok... I'm done with you. Obviously you're not capable of rational discourse. If you actually think a fetus can exists outside of the womb at 5 months, you're either stupid or really, really gullable. The fetus doesn't even have a fully formed brain by 5 months, nor have their lungs closed... so they would have no way to breath even on a ventilator. Anyway, for a complete analysis of fetal development and when a fetus "becomes" human, see: http://www.2think.org/carl_sagan_abortion.shtml
#46 - Ya, I have some stock. (Not as much as I wished I had...:-) I bought it in January 2001 when it was at about 43 I think. I then sold most of it again around Feburary of 2002, when it was at close to 70 (again, from memory... so I'm not sure.). Then I bought it again at around 40 in September. Overall, I've been pretty lucky and have, for the most part, made a good chunk of change. I plan on holding on to the stock for a while now... especially with .NET Server around the corner... not to mention the TabletPC. |
| #22 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/20/2002 12:55:59 AM |
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mhfm, I'm a Christian. I agree with RMD on most thing that he says that do not relate to religion. You have even stated that you think I'm a devout Christian. In the spirit of two brothers who believe in Christ, I'll just say that your behavior is deplorable.
There are several questions that I think you need to ask yourself. By what authority do you name another person's sins? Why should God, who is no respecter of persons, hate a political party? Did Jesus teach us to let our light shine before the world or to let our condemnation of others shine before the world? Did Jesus teach that we should not judge? Did Jesus teach judgement is mine, I will repay (sometimes stated as, vengence is mine saith the Lord)? Did Jesus teach about turning the other cheek? Did Jesus teach that we should love our enemies, not dispise them? Did Jesus say the meek would inherit the earth? I'm not going to talk about whether I agree you or not. I will say that I am ashamed of your lack of love and respect for RMD and for JaggedFlame specifically, and this community at large generally. The most important thing you can do in this life is to love God and to love your neighbor. Perhaps you need a reminder that we are all sinners and all need to repent. It seems to me that you would be better off if you purified yourself before you proclaimed to others that they are sinners. Since perfection doesn't seem to be an achievable goal in this life (meaning that all the time you are a mortal person, you'll be a sinner), perhaps you should show some humility even when you are pretty pure. Perhaps I overstep my bounds in saying what I've said. I am judging you, so I hope you'll forgive me if I err in doing so. From my perspective in reading your posts on this thread, I do not feel any love from you for God, for the citizens of this country, or for those that post on this site. Even if I am incorrect in my perspective, the point is that at least one person (me) doesn't feel at all the love which you should be showing. This is a very bold stance for me to take, but the others on this board, the citizens of the United States, and God Himself deserve to hear that there are Christians that respect those who have different opinions. Christians are not all foolish and blind, any more than Democrats are all evil child killers, any more than Republicans are all greedy thieves. The ideals of Christianity, in my opinion, are pretty dang good whether you believe in Jesus Christ or not. (As a little aside, Christianity in its purest form - the one that was practiced during the time of Jesus - was the same as thing as pure socialism. Perhaps I misunderstand socialism, or perhaps those who disagree don't undrestand Jesus.) |
| #23 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 10/20/2002 1:57:21 AM |
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mhfm - i won't call you a fanatic, or any of the other slang lobbed against you here. You have a right to your opinion, and you have a right to share it with others... on an anti-abortion website or on this tech site... wherever. However...
you have to remember that to be effective, you need to know your audience. Shocking a crowd with images like the one you linked to... is usually the worse possible approach to having others really listen to what you have to say. For this site of thinkers, I believe a rational explanation would suffice. I commend you for trying and good luck. But PLEASE be careful with the way you argue. It WAS offensive, and you have little chance of swaying someone that you've offended. Now back to other things - sodablue, a person's pay is derived from the ability to find a replacement. The sad reality is that most of us (professionals in industries other than education) would be as-capable as many of the teachers in the classroom today. And because of that, their pay is low. Its just that simple. Would I prefer they get paid more? You bet. Am I willing to double the pay of the current batch of teachers (good and bad). No way. I WOULD be absolutely falling over myself to triple the pay of EFFECTIVE teachers... those teachers that you "remember". Unfortunately, the current system gives the AWESOME teachers the exact same pay as the ones who goof and are only teaching because they couldn't think of anything else to do with their lives. bob670 (post #34) was right... the teacher unions are a HUGE problem. They perpetuate the problem. They keep the ineffective in front of our kids... and drive away the truly talented teachers to better paying work. I commend President Bush for at least TRYING. His ideas WILL NOT WORK, but at least he's trying something different. With testing, perhaps you can identify the ineffective SCHOOLS (we are still far too scared to actually identify the ineffective TEACHERS). Incremental progress is better than no progress at all. A little of my background: I went to public school for 12 years. Teachers (with 3-4 exceptions) were absolutely horrible. ONLY because my parents pushed pushed pushed, was I able to go to an ivy league school. And THEN, it became so horribly clear... just what a waste of time my high-school years were. I say this, to show you that I've seen it from both sides. I'm not an expert, but I have some perspective on the issues. This post was edited by mooresa56 on Sunday, October 20, 2002 at 02:00. |
| #24 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/20/2002 2:41:16 AM |
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BobSmith - thank you for your kind words. While I don't agree with you about religion, it's nice to know that at least some Christians (perhaps most... I don't know) really do try to follow in the footsteps of their Messiah. This post was edited by RMD on Sunday, October 20, 2002 at 02:42. |
| #25 By 2 (24.54.153.247) at 10/20/2002 12:38:29 PM |
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mhfm Don't ever post a link to a picture of a dead baby on here again. This is a Windows news site, for sake! That stuff is NOT welcome here. I don't care what opinion you have. KEEP IT CLEAN! Furthermore, I don't want to read scripture, either. This post was edited by AWBobStein on Sunday, October 20, 2002 at 12:53. |
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