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Microsoft must respond to Sun injunction request by Oct. 4 | |
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| Time: 00:06 EST/05:06 GMT | News Source: Silicon Valley | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Microsoft Corp. must respond by Oct. 4 to Sun Microsystems' request for a federal court injunction that would require the software giant to integrate Sun's Java programming into Windows, a spokeswoman for Sun reported Wednesday. U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz set a Dec. 3 hearing on Sun's request for the preliminary injunction, in which Sun also asks that Microsoft be prevented from distributing Virtual Machine for Java in an unlicensed manner. | ||
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| #1 By 531 (64.109.31.137) at 8/29/2002 12:12:06 AM |
| Do you think "go screw a goat" would be considered a vaild response? |
| #2 By 8589 (65.100.121.60) at 8/29/2002 12:38:01 AM |
| I think the people at Sun have lost thier minds. |
| #3 By 4209 (64.175.184.131) at 8/29/2002 8:52:02 AM |
| #6 No there would be two monopolies not any competition. In order to have competittion these companies need to stop suing and learn how to develop, produce, and market there software instead of relying on the courts to force MS to put it in or take out there own stuff. Maybe if some of these companies in this wonderfull industry would actually act like competition and get off there lazy collective Ass we would have some more competition and choice. But no they rely in the DOJ and there lawyers to do it, instead of the marketing department and the programmers. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/29/2002 10:15:29 AM |
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beeyp - so you are ignoring the FACT that the Appeals court overturned Jackson's ruling because of obvious bias?
mctwin2kman is right, the breakup order from Jackson wouldn't have resulted in any real changes because the chief problem is companies like Sun whining instead of doing. |
| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 8/29/2002 10:43:27 AM |
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#6, yes, Windows should be stripped of IE, etc.--and in doing so break a good many applications, leaving users with only a handful of high-quality, useful applications that work.
Heh, much like Linux. |
| #6 By 4209 (64.175.184.131) at 8/29/2002 11:33:42 AM |
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#14, as I recall MS could not use the actual Sun JVM, because Sun did not want them to. They were stuck with an old one to work with due to the lawsuit. Sun does not want MS to build on the JVM they want them to include there JVM. Well I am sorry but if you need a JVM go to Sun and download it, you will get there latest version. MS just decided not to include the MS version, so why should they be forced to include Sun's which is what Sun wants. That is like making Ford include GM's transmission in there cars, or as stated above Coke being forced to give you a can of Pepsi in every 6-pack, Malbaro being forced to put a pack of Camel's in a carton. Why does Sun need there JVM in MS's OS? Why can't they just trust in everyone who needs it going to there site and downloading it. I needed it and I downloaded it. It sucks and is useless for what I needed it for. So I go to a machine with IE 5.5 to do what I need to do once in a while. Get off your high horse you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
MS has %95 of the market because there is no other viable alternative. Yes there are alternatives but not easy to use ones that Joe Blow can use. Yes they made PC manufacturer only install there browser and there Media Player. What other OS were they to install? Linux? That has been tried and it failed miserably with both Dell and IBM so give me a break. If no one makes anything better then the consumer is forced to buy what is there. If Sun would get off there collective Ass and advertise and make there software better then they would do better. Because the IT pros are the ones who install it and recommend it to othere, so they need to cater to us. Until they do they can screw off, I am not recommending or installing there shit on my network or peoples PC's. |
| #7 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 8/29/2002 11:53:45 AM |
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Oh, it's all so simple, isn't it? There's no two sides to any story, is there, beeyp? What's it like in conspiracy-world?
I'm not about to claim that MS did nothing wrong, but they didn't do everything wrong, like you seem to contend. The MS JVM was the fastest available back in the day, and by fast I mean "borderline fast enough to be useful." The other, more compliant JVMs were ponderously slow. Java will be an open standard when Sun releases it to a standards body. You are taking anti-trust law and twisting it. Don't forget that it's about protecting consumers, not companies. Agressive competition is NOT illegal, and Sun (as well as many, many others) are guilty of many of the same tactics. MS did act illegally, yes. But, are they legally bound to incorporating third-party software into their OS? NO. Is the Sun JVM available for download from Sun? Yes. Is it Microsoft's responsibility to ensure the success of Java? NO. Is it Sun's responsibility? Absolutely. Maybe Sun should think about being less of a sworn enemy if they want to create a relationship with the maker of the #1 desktop OS in the world so that they might have success with Java. |
| #8 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/29/2002 1:20:31 PM |
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beeyp - "This is why MS is a monopoly ...
...because people, in general, don't have a clue. " If you are talking about yourself, yes I would have to agree. Microsoft understands what customers want, and unfortunately most other people in the tech industry don't have a clue about this, or bother to understand it. "1) Microsoft is on 95% of computers because it acted illegally. " No, Microsoft is on 95% of computers because customers purchased the product. |
| #9 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 8/29/2002 3:43:13 PM |
| Or pirated it :-) |
| #10 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 8/29/2002 4:43:15 PM |
| n4cer - Good point. Ok, "customers choose it." :) |
| #11 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 8/29/2002 5:41:46 PM |
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Beeyp, a browser, an office suite (if you don't correspond frequently with MS Office users... conversion of files doesn't cut it--collaborating on files via conversion has failed time and time again...), GIMP, etc., do not constitute a rich and complete set of applications. If all you're going to do is browse the web and type up some documents for your own use, sure, Linux will be fine. A desktop replacement for a business? Well, I guess we will have to write our own accounting app, our own document management software, our own market research app, our own case management software, our own pro-publishing layout software, etc., etc., etc. Sometimes it's difficult enough to find the software that fits that task when using Windows... why make it 1000 times harder by switching to Linux? If the applications available can do what you need, that's cool... but for most people Linux is not there yet. And for the people that only want to do email, surf, and simple docs, they aren't the most savvy users; the support structure for Linux favors the geek, not Joe User. They are much more likely to have a friend that is Windows-savvy to help them out if the need arises, and the documentation that's included is far better and less technical than what is availalbe for Linux.
Linux is user-friendly? Have you met my users? Obviously not. You and I probably have no trouble... for them, even Windows and Mac can be quite challenging. But at least there they have much more company if they need a hand. Too hard to install? Usually the problems reported about installing Windows are not about installing Windows, but upgrading Windows. A fresh install of Windows XP is a piece of cake... and even the upgrades usually go very well. A fresh install of Linux can go pretty well... but there's a comparatively much greater likelihood of it being a nightmare. And as for home users considering to switch to Linux... good luck upgrading from Windows!! Good luck trying to save your settings, your Quicken/Money data, your scanner/OCR software, your saved email, your kids' games... oh, did the Linux crowd mention that to you when they convinced you to no longer support the "evil empire"? Maybe once all developers are giving away their software for free, the whole industry will shrivel up and we can go back to a world without a thriving, bustling technology field spurred by investors/venture capitalists and opportunity. If only Marx could come back to see how well we've done. |
| #12 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 8/29/2002 9:19:30 PM |
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beeyp, you started it, so I guess I shouldn't feel bad about joining the fray against you.
Um, what's your point? Microsoft is should be illegal? It should just stop break apart (as a company) or break apart (as an operating system)? On both counts the appeals court disagrees with you. If you waive Jackson as a standard of truth, you should hold the appeals court in even higher esteem. Your misrepresenation about Microsoft's activities with Java have angered me such that I almost want to swear. First I'd like to know whether you are a programmer. If you are, then we could chat for a while about this. If you aren't, then you probably wouldn't understand the conversation, so retorting to you would be meaningless. Suffice it to say that - RMI and JNI (the two technologies that Microsoft's JVM didn't support) were not required in the implementation of a JVM. Thus, Microsoft's JVM was a valid JVM, although not a full (core + optional) JVM. Sun's biggest complaint here is that Microsoft chose to also support COM, I believe via J/Direct rather than via RMI. Sun didn't want COM apps, so they got mad. On open standard is one that has been approved by a standards body. C++ is a standard. C# is a standard. The Common Language Infrastructure (.NET Framework is Microsoft's implementation fo the CLI) is an open standard. VB is a closed standard, since Microsoft won't release it. Java is also a closed standard, since Sun wont' release it. The existance of Microsoft's JVM on a machine does not prohibit or impede the use of another JVM. I currently have three JVM's installed and they all work quite nicely. I came to a site that required a JVM (even though I had Microsoft's installed), so it told me to download Sun's to view the applet. Mind you this all happened automatically. My browser uses Sun's JVM, not Microsoft's to view applets. Any ISV who writes Java apps (just look at p2p apps if you need some examles) often ship the appropriate version of JVM which is required to run their software. When you install the appl, the JVM required is also installed. In this manner, an app gaurantess that the JVM required exists on the machine. This can happen whether or not another JVM also lives on the machine. I guess this means that anyone writing Java apps doesn't have to depend on Microsoft's JVM. J++. Microsft's J++ allowed developers to write Java programs. They could write WORA programs or they could write Windows-only Java programs. Some people call this choice. I have written many, many Java applications using Microsoft's Java environment (Visual J++). Most of them were pure Java (WORA) apps. Some of them were Windows only apps. Microsoft gave developers the option to do whichever one best suited their needs. Don't get me started on Linux. I haven't used KDE since 2.x, so maybe things have changed. Back then I had to mount a floppy drive to use it. That's not what most people would call user friendly. OpenOffice.org does not have a competing product to either Access or Outlook. Further, the Word and Excel competitors have a long way to go. The setup program alone for OpenOffice.org is horrible. |
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