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Service Pack 1 Changes to Product Activation | |
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| Time: 03:40 EST/08:40 GMT | News Source: Microsoft | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Can't remember if we have posted this one of not: Software piracy continues to be a worldwide problem and Microsoft is committed to a long-term strategy of protecting intellectual property through innovative technologies. The introduction of technical measures to thwart piracy has kicked-off a cat-and-mouse game between software publishers and those who pirate software. Specifically, software pirates have been busy engineering circumventions to digital rights technologies including Microsoft's own product activation. With Service Pack 1 for Windows XP, Microsoft will introduce additional technological measures aimed at ensuring licensed customers receive full benefits and to make it more difficult for those who pirate software to steal these same benefits. These changes are: Ensuring licensed customers receive full benefits
Raising the bar on pirates
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| #1 By 9549 (68.44.192.174) at 8/24/2002 9:02:47 AM |
| All the time and effort and resources taken to prevent pirates; wouldn`t it be easier to make the key only work on the one disk that it is created for. It may add to the production process but it also fix all these pirated versions by needing the original key for the product; then you wouldn`t be able to replace pieces of a copy to make a working disk. |
| #2 By 9264 (208.159.121.203) at 8/24/2002 10:26:57 AM |
| I hope your kidding. Give Microsoft your social security number to register Windows? Yeah, that would go over really well. |
| #3 By 2138 (62.201.78.59) at 8/24/2002 11:21:48 AM |
|
I guess #2 must have been high on something!!
belto... |
| #4 By 6253 (12.237.219.240) at 8/24/2002 4:46:43 PM |
|
RobertH, there are all kinds of issues with this, but it's always very easy to threaten.
First of all, a keygen might produce a key which (due to random dumb luck) matches a key generated by Microsoft. Windows Update might see two different machines (different InstallationID) using the same key, but it cannot block both because one is a legal user. If it was a VLK key, then Microsoft "could" contact the legal owner, assign a new key, then disable the old one, but that's asking the legal owner to do work without having been at fault. In the case of the two VLK keys being disabled by SP1, those two large organizations were working very closely with Microsoft, knew that their keys had been stolen by an inside person, and were thus willing to change to a new key. Microsoft isn't going to be able to get anyone else to do that. Also, if the duplicated key is retail, Microsoft may not know who the legal owner is, because you don't have to "register" in order to "activate." The only required information for activation is the country you're in. Some retail users will probably be confused by the difference, so they will register, thinking that they have to, but most retail users are not buying the retail packaged product. Most "retail" users of Windows XP are getting a pre-activated OEM installation on new computers, so they are never even confronted by an activation requirement. They still get prompted to register, but since it's not a combined register+activate dialog, there's less confusion. Next problem: Let's say Windows Updates detects a keygen key which is "valid" (per algorithm) but has not been previously generated by Microsoft, so Windows Updates blacklists that key. Realistically, there's no way for the Windows Update site to ensure that Microsoft's manufacturing and fulfillment vendors get notified right away that this keygen is blacklisted. Like every software manufacturer except IBM, Microsoft doesn't actually manufacture media or packaging themselves. Microsoft outsources this stuff. So what if Windows Update blacklists a key, and then manufacturing generates that key 10 minutes later? (With the way some of these outsourcing companies work, it might as well be 10 months later. They don't always tend to be the most on-the-ball folks you'll ever meet.) So I think Microsoft's statement is a bit misleading, which isn't surprising. Before Windows XP actually shipped and people actually tore apart WPA, there was a lot of confusion about it, partly because some people imagined things rather than reading the Microsoft descriptions, but also partly because some of Microsoft's descriptions weren't technically accurate. IMO, they're really going to keep a manually-determined list of pirated keys (rather than a full list of legal keys) on Windows Update. Right now, that list has two entries. I think they're simply threatening to add more if/when they can. Whether they ever really can is to be seen. I'm sure they know that they don't intimidate the real hackers, but it's not hard to scare the ordinary users. There are maybe a few hundred people in the world with the skill, time, and motivation to write a keygen. Microsoft couldn't care less if a few hundred copies of Windows gets pirated. But there are millions of people who download and use keygens which they could never write themselves. That's where the money is. |
| #5 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 8/24/2002 6:50:03 PM |
|
So now Activation DOES contain specific data, and Windows update will no longer do it's thing without "obtaining any information from your computer".
This is just the start folks. Just the start... I see them taking more and more data from your machine as time goes on, and I have zero doubt that Microsoft will hide something in the Eula to give them the opportunity. Also... "Additional grace periods for hardware out-of-tolerance situations Users will have up to 3 days to re-activate Windows XP after making a hardware change that triggers the need to re-activate. Previously, users were required to re-activate immediately upon the next boot after the hardware changes were made. " It's about damned time. My system has been taken down FIVE times by product activation kicking in. Twice it was after simply installing a new driver. It's not as begnign as they make it out to be, and it's only going to get worse. For a legal owner, I've never felt like I had a leash around my neck so much. Thank goodness Apple doesn't do this nonsense. TL |
| #6 By 6253 (12.237.219.240) at 8/24/2002 7:35:18 PM |
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TechLarry, you can't rip Apple off the same way you can rip off Microsoft.
Even if you pirate an upgrade to their new OS X 10.2, you still had to have bought Apple's hardware (because no Mac clones have been sold for years; Steve Jobs ended their licensing program and threatened to sue the pants off of any remaining clones, and none of the clones which were produced long ago can run the current OS). And when you buy Apple's hardware, you can't buy it without an OS, so if you've got hardware which is new enough to run your pirated copy of the OS, you also paid for a relatively recent version of their OS (at worst, OS 9.2, I believe). I don't think Microsoft would be quite as upset over piracy of Windows XP if every pirated copy of Windows XP required the pirate to have made a $1,000+ purchase from Microsoft within the past couple of years, including a legal copy of Windows ME or 2000. Sure, they'd still be annoyed by it, but not nearly as much as they are right now. There is a large number of people happily running Windows XP who haven't ever sent a buck Microsoft's way, others who haven't done so in many years since DOS or maybe Windows 95. You can hate WPA, but don't think Apple's situation is the same as Microsoft's. |
| #7 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/24/2002 9:05:21 PM |
|
Windows Update has always obtained information from your computer. It doesn't, and even after SP1, will not obtain any personally identifiable information from your computer. The Product Key won't tell them who you are unless you are a business customer w/ VL key, beta tester, or some other registered user (not a regular, registered end-user -- IIRC, the database is separate) .
Windows update already scans your Plug and Play IDs and installed apps to give you a customized update listing. The same applies to activation. It always sent specific data (a hash consisting of your system's PNP IDs and other stuff (I forget offhand). None of this can be used to identify the user. The inclusion of the Product Key largely changes nothing. It just provides an extra variable for the crackers to contend with. |
| #8 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 8/25/2002 12:41:43 AM |
| n4cer, do you really think Tech Larry cares about the facts? Maybe he doesn't know that whenever he visits a web site it can put a cookie on his machine which WILL IDENTIFY HIM on every return visit! Perhaps he doesn't know that his IP address can be stored and identify him because it is sent along with every HTTP request. Perhaps he (and the millions like him) doesn't really care about reality, but just likes to complain. |
| #9 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 8/25/2002 1:30:30 AM |
| In that case you are so close to not being able to run Windows applications. Here is a very key thing to keep in mind, if you aren't pirating Windows, you have nothing to worry about. |
| #10 By 143 (205.188.208.41) at 8/25/2002 3:55:27 AM |
|
Q. Will we be able to download XP SP1 and save it to disc? |
| #11 By 10 (64.108.36.11) at 8/25/2002 8:08:32 AM |
| A. Yes |
| #12 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 8/25/2002 5:49:26 PM |
| Ok, when does XP SP1 get released? I heard maybe August 28th? |
| #13 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/26/2002 12:34:02 AM |
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Check http://www.newegg.com
Specifically, http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=90&manufactory=1149&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1 Hardware purchase required, but I don't think it has to be $200. You can check Pricewatch or MySimon for extra licenses if needed. (Generally ~ $50 for home, $100 for Pro) |
| #14 By 2960 (156.80.64.120) at 8/26/2002 9:25:08 AM |
|
Bobsmith,
"n4cer, do you really think Tech Larry cares about the facts? Maybe he doesn't know that whenever he visits a web site it can put a cookie on his machine which WILL IDENTIFY HIM on every return visit! Perhaps he doesn't know that his IP address can be stored and identify him because it is sent along with every HTTP request. Perhaps he (and the millions like him) doesn't really care about reality, but just likes to complain. " Yes, I do. The facts are: 1. I purchase all my Operating Systems. 2. WPA has been a pain in the ass for me. 3. As a legal user, I don't want to be subjected to this crap. That's it. No need to get so personal. TL |
| #15 By 2960 (156.80.64.120) at 8/26/2002 9:32:29 AM |
|
n4Cer,
"Windows Update has always obtained information from your computer. It doesn't, and even after SP1, will not obtain any personally identifiable information from your computer." That's not what the dialog used to say. It used to say that NO information from your computer was collected. None. That is apparantly different now, and IMHO is just be beginning. TL |
| #16 By 2960 (156.80.64.120) at 8/26/2002 9:34:34 AM |
|
#11,
"TechLarry, you can't rip Apple off the same way you can rip off Microsoft." I don't rip off anyone. All of my software is paid for. TL |
| #17 By 2960 (156.80.64.120) at 8/26/2002 9:39:47 AM |
|
Bobsmith Writes:
"In that case you are so close to not being able to run Windows applications. Here is a very key thing to keep in mind, if you aren't pirating Windows, you have nothing to worry about." Errant lock-outs and reactivation demands aside, of course. Legal users should not have to be subjected to this just to satisfy Microsofts paranoia. That's the point I'm trying to make. TL |
| #18 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 8/26/2002 12:30:51 PM |
|
Collected meaning Stored.
It doesn't store your info. It has always scanned your computer. That is why you must download the ActiveX control. That is the only way the system can know what hardware and applications you have installed. This is how the system has always worked. It can't work any other way unless you want to register all of your installed hardware and software with MS manually (including every little update or hotfix you have installed). According to past articles on the subject (I believe during Win 98 or 2000 timeframe), this is also not the first time MS has blocked Product Keys using Windows Update. The articles could have been wrong at the time (most stuff written about MS is often wrong), but if they were true, then this is nothing different. The main point is that neither Windows Update nor Product Activation store any information that can be used to identify the user. This post was edited by n4cer on Monday, August 26, 2002 at 12:32. |
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