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Apple's .Mac Challenges Microsoft's .NET | |
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| Time: 14:21 EST/19:21 GMT | News Source: NewsFactor | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Chiding Microsoft for talking a good ball game regarding Internet services while Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) actually takes action, Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced at the MacWorld Expo in New York that Apple would convert its free iTools suite into subscription-based .Mac Web services. Noting that nothing is free anymore, Jobs pointed out that Apple’s move into Internet services will cost users US$100 per year for 15 MB of IMAP/POP mail storage and 100 MB of Internet-based storage. The storage will be built into the Mac's OS X Finder and located on Apple’s iDisk Internet servers. In addition, subscribers will have access to a Web site creation tool, antiviral software and back-up software. But Jobs' case for "Internet services for the rest of us" glossed over the high prices Apple is demanding for its newest innovations, including .Mac and the soon-to-be-released Jaguar OS X version 10.2. Jaguar will cost $129, or "less than a dollar for each feature," as Jobs put it. | ||
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| #1 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/18/2002 2:47:24 PM |
| I don't blame Apple for trying to earn some money this way, but comparing .Mac to .Net is like comparing a set of blueprints to an architect. Both are certainly useful, but one is pre-made and fixed, whereas the other is a re-usable service that anyone can use. Implicitly equating a one-vendor set of traditional services to an actual innovative platform for services, usable throughout the industry... well, that's good hype for the Mac faithful. |
| #2 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 7/18/2002 2:59:50 PM |
| No, but if you compare it to what was supposed to be Hailstorm and is now (or is it) My Services: this looks pretty good--and that's what Apple's trying to serve. Calendar, Contact, Photo, email, and message sharing and syncing across all devices (PDAs, phones and even iPods) and platforms (Mac, Win, PalmOS, Symbian), a web-based home for the info, bluetooth and 802.11 and firewire support, zeroconfig network and services detection... throw in Sherlock web services functionality, and you've got me wondering why the hell Microsoft needs to do it in a proprietary fashion. |
| #3 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 7/18/2002 3:02:05 PM |
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.Mac, like you said, is compareable to .NET My Services, however, .Mac is not AT ALL compareable to .NET
.NET is a complete platform while .Mac is just a group of services. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/18/2002 3:45:44 PM |
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sodajerk - Uhh, Hailstorm went away several months back. I'm surprised you forgot considering you lost on that argument.
I also fail to see anything about this .Mac which is less proprietary than Hailstorm. If anything Hailstorm was more open. In other news, Microsoft is going to be charging $75 for SP1 for Windows XP. |
| #5 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 7/18/2002 3:55:03 PM |
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That's my whole point, soda. I don't know what you think you've demonstrated. Microsoft has offered very few if any consumer services to connect your devices over the internet, etc...
Proprietary in terms of closed ownership, foo, not in terms of cost... Too bad you don't bother to check some things out, but .mac works on any internet-enable platform... iSync will sync with any wireless-enabled syncML device (i.e. Palms and any Symbian (GPRS) phone, at the moment) or any device connected to .mac. I don't know if MS is using syncML, but I would hope so... they may slip behind trying to get every single piece together and with a MS name on it first. |
| #6 By 2960 (156.80.64.164) at 7/18/2002 4:11:54 PM |
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Steve Jobs can take his $130 "No upgrade allowed" MacOS X 10.2 and stick it.
I have a three month old machine, and I'm supposed to shell out $130 for a dot-release update? Not gonna happen. TL |
| #7 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 7/18/2002 4:42:54 PM |
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Okay, Tech, get it all out. Have you been over to MacSlash? They have an active discusssion going there. Apple is actually soliciting feedback and guaging the reaction to see if a policy change is necessary. Call at this number: (800) 335-9258 , but act chill.
I've personally got no problem with 2.5 years of updates (what 7, I think) with 4 to 5 cool media apps which have also had 2-3 updates plus a complete set of dev tools (also updated once) and another OS as well which I've installed on two machines and have shared with 4-5 other people (maybe not ethical but Apple did nothing to stop me and it was to promote the OS on their behalf) during which time I got to submit feedback that Apple has never asked for before for $129. (I got the PB the day it was out, but they subtracted that form the cost of 10.0, and I just picked up the 10.1 CDs at the store.) Also, just a dot release? Updated BSD subsystem, gcc 3, integrated bluetooth, integrated zeroconfig, integrated handwriting recog, all of the bug/feature fixes OS9er's asked for, 3 new iApps, updated apps, new dev tools, greater speed, substantially improved Win networking and hardware graphics acceleration which hasn't been brought to any other platform yet? Just because Apple wants to give room for improvement--this could easily have been 11.0 never mind 10.5. 10.2 confirms for me that we'll get to rev up to 10.5 (at least and I hope) for free. |
| #8 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/18/2002 5:23:13 PM |
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sodajerk - "Proprietary in terms of closed ownership, foo, not in terms of cost..."
So can I install this software on my own servers? I don't want my companies data stored on Apple's servers, since I don't trust them. What do you mean I can't? I thought this wasn't proprietary!? "2.5 years of updates" Sorry, no. MacOSX was released in January of 2001. 10.1 update a month later. This is a service pack, and Apple is charging full price for it. Typical how you just jump to Apple's defense when they clearly have worse behavior than Microsoft. |
| #9 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 7/18/2002 5:26:33 PM |
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Sodajerk... you seem to almost claim that .Mac is a platform-agnostic service. No way. *Some* things will work with both Windows and Mac, but many will not (anti-virus as an obvious instance). I think the point is not that it's for Windows and Mac folks alike, but that it has multiple-platform functionality for Mac folks that use Windows at work, so they can share files back and forth, etc. I don't know why you are saying that MS is doing things in a proprietary way, any moreso than Apple is. Hotmail, Passport, Messenger, etc.--they're all free (still!), and they support many platforms.
Sodablue... $75 for SP1--that stinks. I'm not sure how they can do that, though, since some of the settlement stuff will make it's first appearance via SP1. Are they splitting off that into a separate update? |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 7/18/2002 5:44:18 PM |
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soda, you're a silly fool if you think that's a point... It's a consumer service that works on all platforms, not something you get to say whatever you want about and do with it. Do I get to run my own hotmail server? No. Has anyone ever had a problem with MS doing file storage? No.
Don't talk sh1t you don't know about; I actually had a hold of the free Developer Betas in 99, but the Public Beta was 2000. I believe it was August so I guess it's only 2 by my own metric. Maybe unfair but I was also considering the OS 9 updates prior to Aug. 2000. In the very least, I have actually had two years of free updates. Either check your facts or shut up. I posted in the other article early this morning to enforcer that I have my own reasons to not feel burned by this, but that I wouldn't speak up--that article slipped off the page. If Tech wants to keep putting the same rant on any Mac topic that appears, I felt I had to point out that this isn't a service pack. I AM pissed off by the way about the .mac cost; $60 makes me consider it, but until I have a GPRS phone service screw it. Anti-Virus is the only example, bluvg--do you know of a single antivirus program that will work for all platforms? No, I didn't think so. I actually know more people on the Win platform using the iTools than Mac, but I guess the Mac users I know are more likely to have their own sites than the Win users. You can't exchange data from any of the services you talk about with other systems--that's not agnostic. Particularly, Messenger. (Even Apple can't be agnostic about that, but they are more open.) I haven't seen anything from Microsoft that will accomplish the sharing/subscribing/publishing/syncing that was demonstrated the other day with iSync, rendezvous, bluetooth, GPRS phones, PDAs, computers and the web yet. Have you seen demos of Microsoft Smartphones exchanging dat with Macs and Palms and Symbian phones? Did you get a private demo? (Not saying they can't do it; just haven't seen it.) Nor is the email acct (this is a secret bit of salesmanship--it looks like we'll be able to keep just our email acct. if we don't pay) or iChat or authentication a pay service either. Disk storage is. Web space is. This post was edited by sodajerk on Thursday, July 18, 2002 at 18:13. |
| #11 By 3339 (67.116.253.31) at 7/18/2002 6:44:16 PM |
| You haven't listened Axxiom. I have no problem with Jaguar pricing, yes. I will not pay for .Mac, it is ridiculous. I was not defending any pricing, but I was trying to get Tech to appreciate the full impact of Jaguar. I would not defend any pricing scheme as such, I have just been arguing that these are actually cool and full featured consumer web services beyond what MS is offering. |
| #12 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 7/18/2002 8:21:23 PM |
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sodajerk - Haha!
I just used one of your arguments against you, and you rushed to the defense of Apple. .Mac Services stinks as much as .Net services. It doesn't matter, since I don't own a Mac I won't be buying into it because it's proprietary nature will make it impossible for me to use. |
| #13 By 2332 (165.247.4.174) at 7/18/2002 11:29:04 PM |
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Wait, hold the phone... SP1 is gonna cost $75!?
What the hell? I hope I can get SP1 Lite (without Mira/Freestyle/whatever) for free... as I'm not fond of the idea of paying for SP1. I didn't pay for Win98 SE either. :-) |
| #14 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 7/19/2002 4:30:45 AM |
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Yeah, I'd like to see a reliable source for that XP SP1 price.
I see little point in comparing .NET My Services with anything else, primarily because it would be like comparing the game of Axis and Allies that I started writing and never finished to the version that you buy at the store. FYI, .NET My Services as been shelved for the time being. .NET alerts is the only functionality that was released (as far as I know). If .NET My Services were available, they eclipse the offerings of .mac, but since they aren't available there is little point in talking about it. For the 800th time, Microsoft .NET is a platform. It is not Passport, nor .NET My Services (previously code named "hailstorm"), nor is it an operating system. It is an ECMA standardized set of libraries and infrastructure required to write web based, desktop, or web services applications. Apple is not offering a development platform, so .mac also should not be compared with .NET (the platform). Kudos to Apple for charging for OS X 10.2 (how do you pronounce that anyway - Oh Es 10 10 point 2? Oh Es Eks 10 point 2?) It should silence the folks that say Windows XP is too expensive. Finally, I'll add in my agreement that iTools (and when it is enhanced .mac) is set to be way overpriced. It seems to me that the functionality offered is minimal. I would hardly call anti virus software, web storage, or email accounts a web service in the now traditional sense of the term. It seems that Apple agrees with Sun in the definition for web services. If Apple isn't throughing out some WSDL for me to code against, then they aren't from offering web services. I am happy to see Apple jumping on the hype of Microsoft announcements though. They even christen their new iTools offering using a similar moniker to Microsoft's (.mac from .NET). |
| #15 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 7/19/2002 10:53:54 AM |
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RMD/BobSmith - SirTrollAlot was correct. I wondered what sort of outrage that would cause, considering Apple charging for MacOS service packs is being ignored. :)
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| #16 By 2960 (68.100.19.3) at 7/19/2002 8:44:41 PM |
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I don't have a problem with Apple charging for .Mac, but what I do have a problem with is Apple not promising improved service (mail.mac.com is unreliable as hell).
There was a posting on www.macintouch.com covering this subject today. I was considering signing up, but since reading that Apple apparantly has no intentions of changing anything other than the name, I've decided to pass on it. TL |
| #17 By 2960 (68.100.19.3) at 7/19/2002 8:46:28 PM |
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"In other news, Microsoft is going to be charging $75 for SP1 for Windows XP. "
Call me gullible, but after Steve's boner with MacOS X, I have to ask this... Dude, are you serious? TL |
| #18 By 2960 (68.100.19.3) at 7/19/2002 8:49:42 PM |
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SodaJerk,
We tend to agree on a lot of things Mac, but not this one :) Steve Jobs is out of his friggin' mind if he thinks I'm paying $130 for MacOS X 10.2. It is NOT a new OS. It is a point-release. And I don't even want to hear about the 150 new features, or the "less than $1 feature" horsepuckies. He should have been laughed off the stage for that one. Most of the update is to fix bugs, and add things that should have been there in the first place. $69 upgrade? Sure. $130 'new' OS, not no, but HELL no. I will NOT defend Apple on this one. They have stabbed their MacOS X early adopters right smack in the heart. TL |
| #19 By 3653 (65.190.70.73) at 7/20/2002 12:34:41 AM |
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Sodajerk, have fun paying for your point release. Oh, and how's your butt? Steve Jobs finished with you yet?
Everyone else, sodablue was kidding about the xp sp1 cost. Maybe we need a new [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tag. |
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