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Windows Media 9 attracts the fat cats

Time: 08:44 EST/13:44 GMT | News Source: VNUNet | Posted By: Byron Hinson

With Windows Media Player 9 (WM9) it's not users but broadcasters, Hollywood, and the music studios which are being offered a tempting bait - guaranteed copy protection - and they're all but hooked. Bill Gates's vision means that users will not be able to make an illegal copy of something which is intellectual property. MP3s will have copy protection and, more importantly, one in which Windows Media formats are the only digital games in town.

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#1 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 8:51:27 AM

I'll pass.

I firmly believe in my fair use rights to use my PURCHASED materials in any way I see fit, anywhere I want, any time I want.

The more they dissolve this right, the less I'll buy.

It's their choice to lock it down, it's my choice to not purchase thier products. Plain and simple.

TL

#2 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 9:30:14 AM

I've been thinking about this, and I've only come up with one way out of this whole Digital mess for everyone. It's simple, so it will never work :)

1. The content providers will have to start charging FAIR prices for their product. Frankly, I don't have a problem with DVD pricing at all. I think it's fair, and in fact I own over 300 DVD's. However the pricing of music, overall, is attrocious.

note - The mere thought of the Music Industry charging fair prices pretty much kills my plan but I'll continue anyway...

2. With lower, fairer pricing, consumers will be more willing to purchase instead of exchange thier media. I really believe this.

3. Everyone will have to compromise. Consumers will have to understand that they just can't copy _everything_ they want, and the Music companies will have to understand that a certain percentage of materials will ALWAYS be copied. Somewhere in there is a balance.

This current "We will prevent you from copying ANYTHING whatsoever" vs. "Oh, yeah, watch me you rich filthy bastards" has got to stop, that much is for sure :)

Me? I'll just sit on the sidelines for now. I won't purchase anything that is copy protected and prevents me from using it as I see fit for my own use.

TL

#3 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 9/6/2002 10:28:27 AM

"I don't think it should be wrong" could be attributed to every common criminal on the planet.

I'm not necessarily calling you (Larz63) a criminal though. Thats for you to decide.

#4 By 1896 (216.78.253.30) at 9/6/2002 10:38:00 AM

I agree too. There is a big difference between copy and re-distribute and copy to play in my MP player, in my car, upstairs in my bathroom, take with me when I travel or to make compilations. If Music Industries will not allow this I will not buy anything, period. They need me, I don't need them.

#5 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 10:44:52 AM

Fritzly brings up a point that I don't think the RIAA has considered.

A lot of us who are, um, older have built up considerable libraries. I personally have over 120 CD's and 300 DVD's.

I don't _have_ to buy any more. I've got enough to last me a lifetime.

I will continue to add to the library, but under MY terms, not theirs. They can either accept that, or not, and sell me further product, or not.

TL

#6 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 9/6/2002 10:55:38 AM

how do you guys respond so quickly? Do you just sit there and hit refresh all day?

This is what we get from a generation that grew up thinking everything is free (free OS, free lunch, free music, etc). The line between right and wrong is smudged.

I won't denie that you all make good points, but it doesn't matter. You are just JUSTIFYING stealing... plain and simple. Taken to an EXTREME, a drug dealer justifies their trade by saying it provides for their children. And thats a good argument, but surely you would agree that their practice is WRONG.

If someone CREATES something, they have every RIGHT to define how you can buy it or even if you can have it at all. YOU don't make the rules, THEY do. And they should, THEY CREATED IT.

Our recourse is simply not to buy the products. I know thats my recourse. But the answer is not to steal the work.

#7 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 9/6/2002 11:34:20 AM

TL makes a wonderful point. The legal and honorable way to fight an economic war is boycot. He doesn't like the practices of companies using DRM, so he won't patronize those companies. Kudos to him! Incidentally TL, I hope you let the companies you boycot know what you're doing.

As far as DRM goes, personally, I think it is a wonderful thing. Tripwire is dead on. For anything I currently own and want to rip, I can turn DRM off. There is nothing mandatory about DRM in WP9. It is an enabler. It let's me DRM my current content (my choice). It let's me use nonDRM'ed content. It let's me use DRM'ed content. It doesn't force you to do anything. I don't see why anyone would be up in arms about it.

As far as rights go, I think we consumers never understood the actual terms under which we purchased stuff. Places like Blockbuster and Hollywood Video pay far more for their DVD's because they are meant to be rented out and earn the rental place money. A home user with limited use of the content pays much less. In like manner, a person who gets a pay per view channel pays less for a movie than if he went to the store and bought it. If we have DRM, then content providers can charge different amounts for differing granularity of rights. I think that is wonderful. If there is a movie I want to own and watch often, I pay more. If I just want to download it and watch it once, I pay much less. If all the FUD about DRM would die down, it could revolutionize the content industry for the consumers benefit.

#8 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 1:30:13 PM

Mooresa56,

What the hell are you talking about? Stealing?

I beg your friggen' pardon dude.

NOTE ONE THING in any of my posts indicate ANYTHING about stealing. In fact, I explicitly indicated that my posts are related to "PURCHASED materials".

Not one damned word about stealing, thank you very much.

TL

#9 By 10022 (24.169.197.221) at 9/6/2002 1:32:04 PM

This comment has been removed due to a violation of the Active Network Terms of Use.

#10 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 9/6/2002 2:17:03 PM

I understood that you didn't say anything about pirating, which is why I applauded you. Quite often, though, if people can't get the price they want, they do steal it.

#11 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 9/6/2002 2:19:07 PM

I have around 200 CDs and maybe 50 DVDs... I honestly cannot figure out how TechLarry found 300 DVDs worth buying. :-)

I don't like DRM for stuff that I am creating. When Musicmatch first supported WMA it also defaulted DRM to be on, and oh boy did I ever bitch loudly. I think it's dissappointing that Mediaplayer does the same.

But this is the point, it is a setting that I can set at will, so nobody is forcing DRM down your throats. So I don't quite see the point of whining about it.

Also DRM is nice for the content providers who do want it. If I wanted to make my music available(ok, my rendition of chopsticks on a playschool piano probably isn't going to sell) on the internet, I can do so with the DRM. You can listen to it, but you just won't be able to copy it easily and redistribute it. I see nothing wrong with that.

DVDs have DRM built into them, and it is done in such a way that it does not get in my way... I can still take my DVD and bring it to a friends house to play. I'm perfectly fine with that, I don't really feel I need to make a backup copy.

On the other hand with my CDs I do want to make a backup copy, because in that case I take music with me to a variety of locales. But I still pay for the original, I don't do the Napster theft thing.

There needs to be a balance, and I don't see whining about inconsequential things to be useful.

#12 By 665 (66.49.20.2) at 9/6/2002 2:32:38 PM

I have to agree with #9. The content is the media companies, and it is their right to make up what ever rules they want about how we can use their media. BUT, when was the last time you purchased a CD and it came with a written license? It is these companies responsibility to make sure the people who are using it know what they can and cannot due. If I give 100$ to a friend, and get mad at him when he uses it in a way I think it inappropriate, it is not his fault because I didn't tell him first.

#13 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 2:44:03 PM

BobSmith,

No harm, no foul :)

I was talking to mooresa56 :)

TL

#14 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 2:49:16 PM

Todd,

There is this little thing called the "Fair Use Act" that the RIAA/MPAA and others are simply trampling on without any regards to customers rights.

I guess it's their right to do that. Maybe. There is a weakness in the Fair Use Act that, while it gives consumers certain rights, it also doesn't require the industry to _support_ those rights. It's a bit bizarre, actually.

But it's also my right to discontinue purchasing their products if they do.

And that is what they don't understand. They keep this up, and they are going to alienate their GOOD customers, like me, who USED to spend upwards of $2000 a year plus on their products.

It's their choice, it's their move. I won't steal it just because I think it's too expensive. I'll just do without their product, and they will do without my money.

TL

#15 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 9/6/2002 2:51:40 PM

TL - I know, I was just backing you up.

Todd - In at least one way they do let us know what the expect. There is a little notice of copyright on every CD cover. Next to it is always written "all rights reserved". My understand of that is "if we didn't say you can do, then you can't do it". The single and obvious thing we can do with it is listen to it from the original media. Case law may dictate we can do more with it than that, but I'd say that is an override to what the copyright owner intended to give.

#16 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 9/6/2002 2:53:22 PM

I'm tired of hearing about this fair use stuff without having read the law itself. Anyone have a link? I want to read it.

#17 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 9/6/2002 3:13:57 PM

http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/fair_use.html

Good luck :)

And remember, Google is your friend!

TL

#18 By 9549 (63.88.169.2) at 9/6/2002 3:36:29 PM

why can`t you just go to the options and turn the protection off. Why is that so hard for all of you. I remember reading an article on this site that MS doesn`t create software for end users they create it for the industries. They are trying to cater to the record labels so more of them will use their product. Just turn off the protection and stop whining.

#19 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 9/6/2002 3:50:45 PM

I want to send an email message to mswish@microsoft.com to request a DRM method that will protect the actual artists behind a piece of music. That way, folks like Milli Vanilli wouldn't see a penny. Britanny Spears, for example, would only get a small percentage; the actual song writers and Revlon would get the rest.... ;)

Sorry... work has been crazy today!

#20 By 2231 (164.86.108.61) at 9/6/2002 3:56:14 PM

Will the Windows Media Player be the only game in town? Hardly.
Can they(RIAA police) stop me from recording the sound coming out of my sound card? No.

The discussions here are showing the problem with the current state of the law: fair use and DMCA are in conflict. We need a good lawsuit to provide clarity.

In the meantime, if I buy music I believe I am paying for the right to listen to the music. Where, when and how is my business alone. While the recording company may provide a CD, that�s not what I see myself paying for.

The RIAA has the legal and ethical right to stop pirating, but not at the expense of taking away my ability to listen to legally purchased music at my convenience.

#21 By 4209 (64.78.97.180) at 9/6/2002 4:02:29 PM

I just think they should charge a $1 fee per song and let us download a high bit rate MP3 of the songs we want. Then let us burn them onto a CD and make compilation disks that we want to listen too. If they put in DRM then fine, as long as I can play it whenever and wherever I want. That would solve most of the casual pirating that goes on, and also add revenue. I am willing to pay $1 a song for the songs I want off certain CD's. That saves them the money of pressing so many CD's and the cost of the cases as well as the artwork. Yeah they will still have to make CD's but maybe not as many, making them more money in the long run.

#22 By 665 (64.126.91.172) at 9/6/2002 4:04:17 PM

TL, well, yeah, as long as they are working lawfully it is their right to do anything they want. I'm not sold on the "All rights reserved" label, that tells no one anything.

Of course simply not buying the product is the best method, but they will just blame the sales being down on "Internet piracy," which I suppose is kind of true, if only indirectly.

#23 By 1896 (216.78.253.30) at 9/6/2002 4:58:27 PM

#9 Actually I did not grow thinking that everything was free, exactly the opposite. I grew up in a world where you got what you were paying for! I don't steel music, when I was young and living in Europe I was use to pay a vinyl more than the average price because I only bought the ones recorded in the US or even better in Japan; beleive it or not the quality of the recording was much better. Furthermore let us clear a point once forever: digital music on CDs is convenient because the media doesn' t get scratched or bent etc. but the quality is not better, it is colder, there is something missed.
I agree that if someone create something he or she can also set the rules to their product can be used but, I am free to accept them or not. This is the corner stone of a free economy: there is a point where offer and deman meet each other. I can make a CD and sell it for the crude price of the media, nobody will buy it, fine; I am willing to pay for the music made by an artist I like but if the artist create a set of rules I feel uncomfortable with or in my opinion are unfair I will not buy. Who is right? We are both right! I don't whine I state my opinion because I am entitled to. Clear and simple.

#24 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 9/6/2002 5:13:46 PM

timerboy, if a friend gives a CD of MP3's you is breaking the law. It's not rhetoric. It's not fair use. It's piracy and made illegal by the copyright laws. Just FYI.

Realist, I quite often take the role of conspiracy theorist (just not on this board). I'm don't stand for somebody taking away my rights. Since there have yet to be implementations of the DRM that you are so afraid of, I can't see exactly why you are so afraid. Tell me specifically how Windows Media Service 9 and its digital rights management technology infringes on your rights. I don't want to hear "I want to listen to my CDs when, with whom, and how I want." Your rights don't go that far. I want to hear exactly what rights you feel you are losing and which law gives you that right.

As far as protecting content providers I have a few words to say. I am a programmer. I am paid to write code. The more code of mine that isn't stolen, the more money I make (or my company makes). DRM will also aid in protecting me and many other programmers, artists (the kind that draw and paint digitally), musicians, syndicated columnists, authors, etc. It will help large record companies and movie studios, but it will also help little guys like me.

One final note, you say that DRM will be mandatory and not turn off-able in future versions of Windows. I'd like to know what source you have for that. All the material that I have read says that all Palladium features are to be enabled or disabled by the user. It's true that if you have content that requires DRM, you can't access it without it. But it is also true that you can boycot a content provider that provides DRM'ed content.

#25 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 9/6/2002 5:15:36 PM

JamesWjRose - That was DivX... IT failed in the market place.

I agree that I don't want that, and I don't many consumers who do. Again, it has to be a balanced approach and I guess my only point is right now I don't see any companies forcing DRM down my throat. Even the CD makers have backed off on their copy-protected CD idea due to complaints.

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