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Microsoft's Mac Hebrew snub prompts Israeli AntiTrust complaint | |
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| Time: 04:24 EST/09:24 GMT | News Source: The Register | Posted By: Alex Harris | ||
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Microsoft's refusal to provide Hebrew support in its Macintosh Internet Explorer browser or Office suite has prompted a complaint to Israel's antitrust department. It's a fascinating story which raises as many cultural questions as does it does political - all the more so, as we discovered last week, since neither Apple nor Microsoft want to confront the issue. Hebrew writers have long complained that Microsoft Office for the Mac doesn't support the script: even though it's drawn from the Windows codebase which does support Hebrew, and many other right-to-left scripts to boot. The lack of support wasn't fixed in Office 2001:mac, and despite rich language support for developers in Apple's Mac OS X, Microsoft says it has no plans to add Hebrew to Office v.X:mac. Even though it wouldn't cost Microsoft a cent, says Dov Cohen, a law student who formed the National Academic Macintosh Administrators group to lobby for Hebrew support in Microsoft products. | ||
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| #1 By 20 (24.243.51.87) at 6/18/2002 11:21:55 AM |
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Heh, I almost fell for this, then I recognized the source.
Of course, The Register would have you believe that there were a bunch of anti-semites running Microsoft who had an intafada against the Iraelis. HA HA sneaky register! |
| #2 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 6/18/2002 11:39:25 AM |
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According to Dov Cohen software development is free.
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| #3 By 2459 (24.206.97.178) at 6/18/2002 12:06:19 PM |
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Isn't language support supposed to be provided by the OS anyway? Like the installable language packs for Windows. Besides the fact that someone could always write an add-on. This post was edited by n4cer on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 12:07. |
| #4 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 12:42:18 PM |
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zooker and enforcer, the Mac has great multilanguage support, and unlike other apps, why this is such an issue is that Israel has been supported by MS in the past. There is Hebrew Office, just not v.X. There is Hebrew IE and other apps as well. So it appears MS is attempting to strangle an option that was clearly viable and is clearly doable because foreign language support in MacOS is so easy and because the Israelis and Apple are both willing to help with no results.
(soda, Cohen said the Israelis are willing to fund the development; why do you have to be such an idiot?) This is not an Apple issue. It's a Microsoft issue. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 14:43. |
| #5 By 2960 (156.80.64.164) at 6/18/2002 12:56:51 PM |
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#5,
65 milliion, at last count. That would be one heck of a graveyard. Troll... TL |
| #6 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 6/18/2002 1:34:08 PM |
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sodajerk - Strange, when I go out to google and start searching I find numerous references to the fact that OS X doesn't support Hebrew. Here's one now...
http://homepage.mac.com/rgriff/files/osxlanguages.pdf "However, Mac OS X's language support is far from perfect. Mac OS X has absolutely no support for right-to-left scripts at present. So if you need to type in Arabic or Hebrew, you're out in the cold." So it does appear that this is an Apple issue. This post was edited by sodablue on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 13:38. |
| #7 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:15:16 PM |
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Maybe soda should post something from the ADC instead of something written by a MacUser from who knows when. I find tons of documentation concerning supporting r-to-l scripts particularly Arabic and Hebrew. In fact, the article I was just reading was talking about diacritical support for Arabic. Go to http://develops.apple.com There's plenty there to show you that OS X supports Hebrew and Arabic both in an internationalized form and in a localized form. If I was home right now, I could verify that Hebrew and right-to-left text is supported--that says it all. A quote from soda who knows very little about Macs from who knows what source (not Apple) doesn't say anything. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 14:31. |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:22:21 PM |
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Bizarre, here's an Arabic and other language word processor. How did they do it? Mac OS X doesn't support Arabic
http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=14915&db=mac "Devalipi now support five languages. Arabic, Malayalam,Tamil, Urdu, and English. and almost all devanagari script languages are underway." And, my, oh my, is that a screenshot (2nd one down) showing right-to-left Arabic? It can't be! http://www.devalipi.com/pages/help.html What? Apple has actually developed its own fonts for languages it doesn't even support? That doesn't make sense? This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 15:09. |
| #9 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:25:01 PM |
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And what the hell is this? People who speak and write Hebrew have no right using this functionality that isn't in Mac OS X:
http://homepage.mac.com/redlex/gohebrew.html For those who are blind, it bullets these features: Writing and editing in Hebrew and Latin, with the right order of characters kept at all times. Dynamically adjusting column width and also manual setting of width. Switching Writing direction, between Right To Left and Left to Right. Indication of length of text (in bytes). Hot-connection to Adobe GoLive®. Just click on the little icon on the tool bar and you're there, with the text ready to be poured into GoLive. Font and size setting. Save as Visual Hebrew file or plain text file. And more. |
| #10 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:27:11 PM |
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Maybe some developers within MS could use this program to learn Hebrew:
http://foundationstone.com.au/HtmlSupport/FrameSupport/screenShotsFrame.html |
| #11 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:28:31 PM |
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Have we settled the question of language support yet? Or do I have to drag my computer to everyone's house? Jesus!
And do I have to teach you how to do a search on the web, soda? OR do I have to keep teaching the rest of the AW crowd that you are a liar? |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 2:47:14 PM |
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Jagged, as I said, Cohen is saying his group and Apple would pick up the cost for MS's development. How does that equate to him saying software development is free? Since I've already pointed to what the article clearly says once, I'd love to hear your answer. But then again since I have said it already, I bet you won't take the second to crawl out of soda's ignorant and/or lying ass to realize that he is completely, utterly, hopelessly wrong on this issue. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 15:15. |
| #13 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 3:16:57 PM |
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Anon, again this is an old site. Check it out: when whover wrote those pages Office 2001 was just released. This is nearly 2 years old. Go to the ADC and you will realize this is OLD.
Also, all of you should note that this support goes back to Office 2001 when MS first dropped the Hebrew support--are you fools going to begin to argue that OS 9 doesn't support Hebrew now too? Please! This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 at 15:25. |
| #14 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 6/18/2002 3:25:46 PM |
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It wasn't my quote, it was a quote from someone who apparently knows more about Mac's than jerky boy.
The issue is one of built in unicode support. These solutions that jerky boy posted are workarounds, where the developers apparently had to write their own solution. BTW, no mention of Hebrew or Arabic here: http://developer.apple.com/pdf/mactech_intl.pdf |
| #15 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 3:33:02 PM |
| Another year old document, soda. And the only pdf from ADC I've ever seen with crop marks so that shows it's value. It's doesn't list Hebrew? That's because it doesn't provide a list of languages supported, soda. I can show you a lot of documents that don't list things. You really know how to construct an argument. |
| #16 By 135 (66.62.202.211) at 6/18/2002 6:49:08 PM |
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Jerky boy - You are more than encouraged to post links to documents at Apple explaining the Hebrew/Arabic support in Mac OS X.
I did a search there, and I found nothing. |
| #17 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 7:41:45 PM |
| Why would I need to, I've demonstrated my point--you tried to claim that because of OS X it's impossible to create an Arabic or Hebrew application. Haven't I proven that it can be done? The cost or development can't be a factor because this group volunteered--so there goes that attempted rationalization. And the real, broader issue: the support was there in Office 98 (for Mac OS 9 and earlier) and dropped in 2001, which is made for OS 9 and earlier-- so it's not even an OS X question. How much further do I have to take it for you? |
| #18 By 135 (66.62.202.211) at 6/18/2002 8:13:11 PM |
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No I claimed that Mac OS X didn't have native support and that was the fundamental problem. Others have pointed out that Mac OS X doesn't even support hebrew input devices, which further complicates the situation. You are still welcome to post a link from Apple showing that I am wrong, however.
Oh yes and furthermore... I can find no information which suggests Office 98 had hebrew support. You are welcome to post a link from Microsoft showing that I am wrong, however. This link was listed before http://www.ninger.com/mac/hebrew.htm But it has some interesting comment's about Yeda's ability to write stable code. |
| #19 By 135 (66.62.202.211) at 6/18/2002 8:14:47 PM |
| Oh the point being... once again sodajerk shows his hypocrisy with regards to directing criticism towards Microsoft. |
| #20 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 6/18/2002 8:16:31 PM |
| Ha, Ha, ha! Explain to me what you think hypocrisy means, and then show my hypocrisy! |
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