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  Do Windows users pay a Microsoft tax?
Time: 16:49 EST/21:49 GMT | News Source: ComputerWorld | Posted By: Byron Hinson

A few days ago, Steve Ballmer stirred up a hornet's nest when he said that Apple users pay a $500 tax for buying Macs instead of PCs. What he neglected to mention, though, is that plenty of people believe they pay a Microsoft tax for using Windows --- and it's not the price of operating system they're complaining about.

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#1 By 92283 (142.32.208.232) at 3/25/2009 6:07:49 PM
1) There are several good free AV packages.

2) The crapware actually subsidizes your PC purchase.

3) The cost of a windows OS has been calculated at around 60$ for Home Premium. Therefore 99% of the people buying an OEM PC are getting a huge discount.

4) If the 1% (or less) of the Linux whiners don't want to buy an OEM PC, go to a small computer seller/builder and buy the PC without an OS. ( I used to do this because my OS came from MSDN - now I don't bother because if you watch for sales Dell/HP etc are cheaper)

5) The time lost in learning Linux is huge and not worth the investment for most users.

6) OSS are whiners and want to make life more difficilt for Microsoft an anyone who uses a PC with Microsoft software on it.

This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 18:09.

#2 By 15406 (99.240.65.32) at 3/25/2009 6:40:15 PM
#1: 1) There are several mediocre AV packages.

Fixed that for you.

2) The crapware actually subsidizes your PC purchase.

My mother-in-law wants to move in and pay me $100/month rent. I'd rather pay her $100/month to not be here. Same with crapware.

3) The cost of a windows OS has been calculated at around 60$ for Home Premium. Therefore 99% of the people buying an OEM PC are getting a huge discount.


And if I don't want Windows, that's $60 more that I have to spend for something I'm being forced to buy.

4) If the 1% (or less) of the Linux whiners don't want to buy an OEM PC, go to a small computer seller/builder and buy the PC without an OS. ( I used to do this because my OS came from MSDN - now I don't bother because if you watch for sales Dell/HP etc are cheaper)

Sounds great. Where do I go for my barebones notebook?

5) The time lost in learning Linux is huge and not worth the investment for most users.

The same could be said for Vista.

6) OSS are whiners and want to make life more difficilt for Microsoft an anyone who uses a PC with Microsoft software on it.

Looks to me like MS is trying to make life difficult for anyone who doesn't want to pay the MS tax.

#3 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 3/25/2009 9:36:58 PM
"Looks to me like MS is trying to make life difficult for anyone who doesn't want to pay the MS tax."

Thats an OSS whiner for you. 99% of the people get a good deal, and the other 1% whine about Microsoft and OEM's giving people a good deal because thats what they live for.

"Where do I go for my barebones notebook? "

Here are 7. Took me 5 seconds to find:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=3840&name=OCZ-DIY-gaming-notebook&



#4 By 15406 (99.240.65.32) at 3/25/2009 10:00:55 PM
#3: Another point I forgot to mention was that even if I bought a clone without Windows, the sum of the parts would be higher than if I bought a similar spec box from a brand vendor. So again I'm paying more to not have Microsoft.

Here are 7. Took me 5 seconds to find:

That's not what I meant. Those models are missing half their guts. A fully integrated notebook with warranty from the vendor, just like you could buy anywhere else. Plus, I'm not a fan of buying expensive electronics over the Internet from companies I have no idea about.

#5 By 17996 (24.16.47.66) at 3/26/2009 3:12:19 AM
#4 -- I think "missing half their guts" is quite a good definition for "barebones", and it keeps with the body analogy.

#6 By 3746 (72.12.161.38) at 3/26/2009 6:33:23 AM
#4

With Dell you can get the XPS 1330 and 1530 with Ubuntu on it along with the various netbooks. The main issue is that there is not the demand for manufacturers to offer this. There will only be a very small portion of purchasers that will want this and in order to do it they have to do development, testing etc. that will increase cost for very little return.

#7 By 432 (209.167.107.58) at 3/26/2009 9:35:49 AM
#4 - Just becuase you don't know about a company dosen't mean they aren't a great retailer. Do some research find out if the company is legit or fly-by-night.

And just so you, know for the future, TigerDirect is a major retailer in both the US and Canada.

By your logic, if any company is not a giant conglomeration, then no one should buy from them. So much for the little guy.

#8 By 89249 (64.207.240.90) at 3/26/2009 11:29:41 AM
Anything voluntary is not a tax. This article fails on its premise just as Ballmer's statement does.

#9 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 3/26/2009 12:07:49 PM
#4 "Another point I forgot to mention was that even if I bought a clone without Windows, the sum of the parts would be higher than if I bought a similar spec box from a brand vendor. So again I'm paying more to not have Microsoft. "

Translation: "I save money by buying a PC with Microsoft on it, but it makes me so mentally ill I whine about it."

Got it.


#10 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 3/26/2009 1:37:31 PM
#9: No, you don't get it and likely never will. How about this? "I save money buying a brand name PC as compared to a clone, but I'm still being forced to pay the ~$60 Microsoft tax for something I don't want." It doesn't get much simpler to explain that that, but I have no doubt you'll still manage to misunderstand somehow.

Why can't I buy a Dell/Acer/HP/whatever with a blank hard disk? Why can't I transfer an old Windows license from my old, dead PC to a new one with a blank hard disk? Why must I buy Windows again and again and again when I'm only ever using one computer?

Back in the 90's, Microsoft illegally used its monopoly to force system vendors to ship with Windows or risk having their OEM contract pulled. Even if the vendor actually shipped a Windows-less PC, they still had to pay MS and this was, of course, passed along to the consumer in the form of a higher price. What a racket. Then MS decided that systems shipped with blank hard disks MUST mean people are pirating Windows (and for the vast majority of cases, this was true) and forced the major vendors to stop doing that. Now that there are several alternate OSes, the game hasn't changed; no big vendor systems with blank disks for you because MS will get mad at not getting a cut. Thanks MS. Thanks a lot. Another example of MS being all about choice and the consumer.

#11 By 16797 (65.93.215.222) at 3/26/2009 1:45:25 PM
#4 "So again I'm paying more to not have Microsoft."

So just remove Win. Or even better, keep Win and put Linux beside it. Either way, you save $$$.

Latch, as NotParkerToo would say, you make Bush look like a Rhodes scholar :D



#12 By 16797 (65.93.215.222) at 3/26/2009 2:05:29 PM
#10 "Why can't I buy a Dell/Acer/HP/whatever with a blank hard disk?"

Because there isn't enough demand? You are not center of the universe and those companies do what they think is best for them. Shouldn't they?

If you think there's such a great demand for what you want, start your own business and get rich. Prove them wrong.

"Why can't I transfer an old Windows license from my old, dead PC to a new one with a blank hard disk? Why must I buy Windows again and again and again when I'm only ever using one computer?"

If you have full retail version (not OEM), you'll have no problems, I did it many times.

This post was edited by gonzo on Thursday, March 26, 2009 at 14:06.

#13 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 3/26/2009 2:45:30 PM
#11: I know I can wipe Windows, and that's the only option I have, but then I've had to pay $60 for a copy of Windows that I'm wiping. I don't want to pay the $60 in the first place. That's the whole point of this discussion -- the MS tax that you pay for something bundled that you don't want but are being charged for.

#12: While I'm no expert on MS Enterprise agreements, what happens if I have some kind of site license for Windows and want to buy 100 new systems? In that case, have I paid for Windows twice?

If you have full retail version (not OEM), you'll have no problems, I did it many times.

I'm talking the more common scenario, where people buy a brand name system. In that context, you're going to pay for Windows for every system you buy, even though you're only using one system and it's the same version of Windows. And even if you have a retail copy, you've already activated on the old system and now you want to install the same copy on your new machine when the old one dies. Will it activate or will you have to sweet-talk some activation monkey into letting you? I've gone through 3 systems in the last 7 years. Actually, this is a tangent that is unrelated to the MS tax, but it's still another peeve of mine -- MS ties Windows to the system. Same thing with our MSDN sub. We are allowed to install so many copies of Windows & Office before they start failing to activate. Where do I go to add an activation back when I trash an old system? MS seems very good of keeping track of how many you've used but they are almost throw-away activations. Once you use it it's gone forever and you can't get it back. Time to send more cash to MS, I guess.

#14 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 3/26/2009 3:01:23 PM
#10 Two contradictory statements Latch will never reconcile:

"I save money buying a brand name PC as compared to a clone"

"but I'm still being forced to pay the ~$60 Microsoft tax for something I don't want"

You save money doing X, but because some of the money goes to company Y you don't want do X.

Well ... use your tiny little brain. Don't do X. Or do X and spend the 60$ on something else.

Idiot.


#15 By 89249 (64.207.240.90) at 3/26/2009 3:25:27 PM
Why can't I buy a Dell/Acer/HP/whatever with a blank hard disk?
They simply see value add to shipping a computer that works. I know crazy right? You do realize the amount of ppl who want an empty box with a blank HD are an insanely low amount of computer users. And frankly, if you are smart enough to want a blank disk to work with you are a) smart enough to buy good hardware yourself and assemple it b) smart enough to want to install a retail or oem blank install of the os c) capable of doing any warrenty work to your machine yourself.

Why can't I transfer an old Windows license from my old, dead PC to a new one with a blank hard disk?
Because, as the owner of the IP you are licensing a copy of MS has decided to provide the OEM version of its operating system at a discounted price as long as it is only used furing the lifetime of the device you are purchasing it with. That isn't rocket science though I'm sure you are baffled by lesser sciences as well. If you want the ability to free for all your OS from machine to machine... get the retail version.

Why must I buy Windows again and again and again when I'm only ever using one computer?
Because Microsoft hasn't created a mechanism to have the "Hey license me for life" licensing plan you're going to continue buying OEM licenses till end of time. I personally by retail licenses since I retire my person computers faster than most... of course I build my own machines too.

#16 By 16797 (65.93.215.222) at 3/26/2009 3:37:23 PM
#13 "I don't want to pay the $60 in the first place."

And they would love to make that $120 instead of $60.. How about that? :)

Or.. how about this: go get it cheaper elsewhere, if you don't like it. You can try Apple store.

Look, if you want a PC with no OS, that means you're a special case for them (Dell/HP/Acer/etc). Special = $$$.

"Will it activate or will you have to sweet-talk some activation monkey into letting you?"

I had to call first time. I asked that guy to let me reactivate it without calling them again and he did it - now I am able to take that XP Pro, put it on a different computer and activate it without calling them ever again. Already did it a few times. Not sure about Vista, though.

#17 By 15406 (99.240.65.32) at 3/26/2009 7:21:43 PM
#14: Thank you for confirming that you still don't get it.

#15: So what you're trying to say is that Microsoft has decided that I can't move the OS I paid for to a new system, because then they'd make less money. I need to buy it again. Sounds like a great deal to me.

#16: I want to buy a box from a vendor I trust but without the OS. Why would any vendor not want to make money from me by selling their hardware? Because of the MS tax, my only recourse is to scan the EULA for some kind of clause that lets me return the OS recovery disks and try to get a refund, assuming that the vendor honours the EULA. There are stories all over the web of people who had to jump through a mile of hoops to do this. It's very hard to shake MS off your system.

#18 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at 3/26/2009 7:41:55 PM
"Why would any vendor not want to make money from me by selling their hardware?"

They don't make much money off the low end base model (if any). And one phone call from you for support and they lose money. Or you whining about how it didn't come with drivers for your OS and now you want to send it back ... as we all know you would.

You'd bitch and moan about this or that and they'd end up losing 200$ on it.

Selling to you is way more trouble than it is worth. Better to sell to some non-whiney windows user.

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