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Businesses biding time on Vista upgrades | |
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| Time: 06:04 EST/11:04 GMT | News Source: ZDNet UK | Posted By: Andre Da Costa | ||
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Six months after the launch of Windows Vista, businesses remain cautious about Microsoft's latest operating system. Although Microsoft has painted a rosy picture of adoption of its new operating system, analysts say the decision to upgrade hasn't been quick or simple for enterprises. Vista is a much bigger change for businesses than XP, which was essentially a Windows 2000 update, said Ovum analyst David Bradshaw. As a result companies will upgrade to it depending on their needs and whether it is supported by their existing hardware. | ||
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| #1 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 5/18/2007 8:21:26 AM |
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Well duh!
I was actually suprised to learn that my company has plans to upgrade to Vista in 2009. We are a Fortune 500 company with scores of apps that all have to be tested in combination with one another. That is a major, time consuming undertaking. This is such a non story. |
| #2 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 5/18/2007 9:20:36 AM |
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We're shooting for 2008. I think a lot of it will depend on IBM's support of the OS on older machines (but not that old) we have in service such as ThinkPad T42's (which I can tell you from experience run HORRIBLE with Vista without RAM upgrades, and I'm not sure about afterwards) and ThinkCentre S50's.
I have to be honest. I still like Vista, but the newness is wearing off rather quickly. I'm still not sure if I won't go back to XP. The file copy performance issues are really annoying the hell out of me. TL |
| #3 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/18/2007 9:41:30 AM |
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#2, The file copy performance issues are really annoying the hell out of me.
TL, I've seen you write to this subject a couple of times, and want to know more about the circumstances and environmental characteristics that impact your experience. Can you share more about what you have and what/when you are seeing this? I'd like to model/las this as closely as I can - I'd hate for my customers, or family to experience the same sort of things and would greatly appreciate any data/information you'd have time to share. Perhaps if we lab it closely enough, we can use some of our tools to help you resolve, or at least understand what is behind what you are seeing. Many thanks! L |
| #4 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 5/18/2007 9:57:32 AM |
| I had a T43 that I really liked but it only had a 40 gig hard drive. I upgraded to a T60 and have regretted it ever since. I had to get 2 gig of memory to boost responsiveness from Lotus Notes VS 2005 and SQL Server 2005 |
| #5 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/18/2007 10:13:20 AM |
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#2: http://mytechweblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/slow-file-copymove-in-vista-here-is_05.html
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| #6 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at 5/18/2007 11:22:05 AM |
| Now I've have seen it all... |
| #7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/18/2007 3:19:41 PM |
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#6: Yes, I'm also surprised that Ketchum, with his deep-link knowledge of all the newest MS technologies, isn't aware of this Vista problem that I've read about on several tech sites over the past couple of weeks, and that returns 1.2 million Google hits when you check 'Vista slow file copy'.
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| #8 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/18/2007 3:44:00 PM |
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#7, Haven't seen the problem, because we know how to control the auto-scaling and framing that has been a feature in Windows operating systems since SP1 for W2K3 Server.
So, one can select the right switches, NIC's, settings and firewall appliances that allow Vista to breathe. Which is why I asked TL about specs - so I could say okay, try this.... and solve it - solving challenges being much more rewarding than finding and trumpeting faults in anything, or any one. For example, in RC1, WatchGuard appliances running rev 7.x would choke on packets coming from Vista when using Broadcom and or Belkin NIC’s and one had to disable the scalable framing in the OS. It was solved in RC2 and beyond for those devices, but there are likely others, for which settings need to be adjusted – so one captures the data, analyzes it and solves it – or, they simply point at it and say, “Look, ummm buhhh, I told ya!" |
| #9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 5/18/2007 3:51:04 PM |
| #8: The fact that a user should have to do any of this just to get files to copy in less than an eon troubles you not? I don't know if the fix I posted actually works or not, but it was the 3rd or 4th hit from the top. |
| #10 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at 5/18/2007 6:25:25 PM |
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#9, It does not trouble me one lick - as I have said, my customers do not see this, or any issue that we do not address - before we deploy. That results from testing, testing, and more testing... how does the hardware perform.... and mindful of what mix of all equipment and devices I am putting in.
Sometimes [with any OS] slower is faster - for example, if a run is very long, a more aggressive 1000 Base-T NIC may actually be slower and less reliable if left as is... sometimes one has to manually set it to run at 100 Base-T. Much influences such things - so one has to look at sources of interference, co-channel interference in particular... many dozens of things. The point is, the rich ecosystem surrounding Windows Vista is best prepared to ensure the largest percentage of people have a great experience. Where they don't, they need to seek the right kind of support. It is not a guessing game and it is not without challenges and or solutions. |
| #11 By 37047 (74.101.157.125) at 5/18/2007 10:23:11 PM |
| #18: My biggest issue with this problem is that it simply adds more fuel to the bad feel people have for Vista. Especially those many folk who don't run an IT shop such as yourself, or those who can easily research and find the solution like many of us here can. It is these exact sorts of niggling problems that cause all our friends and relatives to NEED to call us all the time whenever the next new issue arises. This is the sort of thing that causes general users to decide that Vista is crap, and they should go back to XP, which was working just fine for them up until now. |
| #12 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/18/2007 11:11:41 PM |
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#11, Oh yes, you are right and have a great point - but the same is so very true of all operating systems, and technologies of every type. In time, they mature and things improve - just in time to do it all over again. The effort is [in most cases] regarded to be worth it in order to access the features and most importantly, "the possibilities" inherent to that which is new.
There are countless examples - and we can all imagine at least a dozen in our OS of choice. Similarly and not.... I recall the first time I crossed an ocean - it was on a steamer, because planes couldn't fly far enough. The second time it was in a super charged plane, but we had to hop in order to make it. There were trade offs, and accessing that which was new, improved and better, came at a price - the plane for example wasn't pressurized and at the lower altitudes that it could attain, the air was very thick and bumpy - it beat the heck out of us. Vista will have trade offs, too - some NIC's, and older routers with built-in switches won't handle it as well. The difference is the scale. In things like Vista, OS X, or a Linuces, things can be fixed more quickly and also more granularly - one for example, may add a switch and simply use the router to route [advised], or swap out a NIC for one that fully supports frame scaling and therefore what RDC can do. A little Live Search, a little testing and time, and voil'a, better throughput. In other areas, things take longer and move more slowly - and sometimes, progress just stinks... as slow and rusty as that old steamer was, I will never forget the sight and beauty of islands appearing out of the morning mist, as the ship eased by close into shore. |
| #13 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 5/21/2007 12:03:45 PM |
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#4,
We're bringing in T60's now too. I have one. I keep my T42 handy, however, as we've seen numerous System Board and RAM failures on T60's so far. TL |
| #14 By 2960 (24.254.95.224) at 5/21/2007 12:04:40 PM |
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IK,
Not sure what to tell you. Vista is just damned slow at copying files, network or not. I can't tell you why :) TL |
| #15 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at 5/22/2007 12:01:58 AM |
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#14, TL. Thanks for the reply. May I ask, have you by chance turned of UAC? Also, what NIC are you using? This is important, because in some cases, one may simply configure the NIC to run at a certain speed and it makes all the difference in the world on Vista - not saying that many NICs or switches have a problem, but some do and this can be worked around.
For example, some NICs and some drivers have properties one may adjust [this isn't for you, per se, I know you're in this business, so this is for people that may not have any experience]. Now, on Vista, whcih features a lot of new abilities, like auto-scaling, and RDC, etc... on occasion, the default "Auto-Negotiate" setting for speed and duplex on a NIC (see, the Device Manager | Network Adapters | Right-Click the adapter in use then select properties and the advanced tab) will not work as well under Vista [design, drivers, etc...]. On the advanced tab for the adapter's properties, set this to 1.0 Gbps Full Duplex [for a 1000 Base T NIC], or 100 Mbps Full Duplex [for 100 Base T NIC]. After manually setting the speed, make sure UAC is on and reboot. ***in some cases, running a 1000 Base T NIC at a fixed 100 Mbps Full Duplex speed will actually result in better and more reliable throughput - for example, when a client computer is at the extreme end of the signaling distance supported by CAT 5 cable. Please try this and if it is still slow, I'll get a NIC like you use and test it and see what settings/driver works best. Thanks, L |
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| #18 By 1195408 (137.175.3.33) at 6/26/2013 5:15:38 PM |
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