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EU still waiting for Microsoft's proposal | |
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| Time: 00:00 EST/05:00 GMT | News Source: News.com | Posted By: Kristan Kenney | ||
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Europe's competition chief said Tuesday that she is waiting for Microsoft to flesh out a statement that it will open up secret source code to avoid an antitrust fine of 2 million euros ($2.4 million) daily. The U.S. software giant's top lawyer, asked when the company would provide details, noted only that the deadline for a reply was Feb. 15. Microsoft last week announced that to avoid the fine--which may be imposed for failing to comply with an antitrust ruling by the European Commission, the European Union's executive arm--it would allow licensees to see some of its secret "source code." | ||
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| #1 By 9589 (66.56.129.233) at 2/1/2006 12:26:03 AM |
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Another demand from the "country" that can't even muster up a constitution (and one is years off at best). Meanwhile, not following their own laws, the EU demands execution of the "sentence," fines, and now even more fines before the appeal process has even run its course. And this, when the so-called Competition Commission has lost nearly every case upon appeal.
One can only conclude that Airbus must be losing to Boeing again and needs another "competition" infusion from the EU via Microsoft fines. |
| #2 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 2/1/2006 1:45:41 AM |
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#1 What is your obsession with the EU constitution? Perhaps they want to get it as right as possible so there won't be as many amendments required in the future. Or are you, as usual, trying to somehow turn this into an EU vs. US issue when the US practically did the same thing to Microsoft minus any punishment of course - we can't punish corporations, that's bad!
As for this... Microsoft, keep your source code, we don't want it, just provide the full, 100% complete and accurate specifications to your API's and protocols like you were order to do and we'll all move on. We don't want to see any of your code whatsoever, we just want to be able to interoperate with you. |
| #3 By 9589 (68.17.52.2) at 2/1/2006 3:57:21 PM |
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Well, Chris, it is like this - the "country" aka the EU doesn't have a constitution - that much we can agree on as it is a fact. What is interesting is why the referendums failed when brought to the Belgium’s and the French. It was turned down by these countries' people because there was fear that it would lead to TOO MUCH competition (those pesky East Europeans with their high skills and low wages will INVADE US if pass this referendum . . . YIPES!). Kind of dovetails with this bogus law suit that the EU’s "Competition" Board has brought against Microsoft. Get it yet? The EU doesn't want competition like Microsoft so they bring a me too suit against them to hinder them from competing.
Meanwhile, in the US, no fines or punishment were brought against Microsoft until AFTER the appeals had run their course. This is NOT happening in the so-called EU. They refuse to wait until the appeals have run their course even though the "Competition" Board has lost on appeal the majority of their cases; they have already fined Microsoft 2/3 of a billion dollars; they are carrying out the "sentence" of a reduced OS feature set (which no one is buying), and have threatened more fines on top of the outrageous sum they have already extracted from Microsoft. Also, the so-called country, the EU, tells us that Microsoft is a monopoly. Yet, if that is their standard, what about Airbus? Without the governments of the EU providing money to Airbus to get it going and sustain it, it could not possibly get to where it is today - only one of two companies on the planet making large commercial aircraft. To recap, Microsoft = monopoly because of customers like you and me buying their superior products. Airbus = monopoly because the countries within the EU suffusing them with the cash to bring the company to life and to sustain it. Do you see a difference, yet, Chris? Microsoft = monopoly = fines, punishment, reduced competition. Airbus = monopoly = continued subsidies from countries from with the EU. |
| #4 By 12071 (203.185.215.149) at 2/1/2006 4:20:06 PM |
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#3 Don't you mean West Europeans? And you're right, there is some fear of that happening. Russia was pressuring it's neighbouring countries, especially Poland, not to join the EU as it would hurt their black market. You also have to remember that most of the countries in Europe have a lot of history (i.e. thousands or years rather than hundreds of years as the case is in America for instance), a lot of history that for one reason or another people have a hard time getting over which also makes diplomacy harder than it would otherwise be. People there are very patriotic and proud of their countries and although they feel the EU will bring them a lot of positive things they fear that "lesser" countries will in some way devalue their own - that's human nature for you, especially when you have that much history!
As for your Airbus example - I can quite clearly see that you have major issues with not only the EU but also Airbus... it's the why that baffles me a little bit. It's not like Airbus is the first company to be helped out by the government and it's not like it's going to be the last! Or is this just a case of this being wrong as it provides a competitor to Boeing? And finally, Airbus is not a monopoly, you said yourself that it's "one of two companies on the planet makring large commercial aircraft" - if anything it's Boeing that's the Monopoly or at least would be if Airbus was not around! From your first paragraph it's quite obvious that you seem to believe in competition - surely in that case it's better for Boeing to have some competition rather than no competition right? As for Microsoft, they've been found not only to have a Monopoly in the US and EU (which in and of itself is not illegal) but they've also been found of illegally abusing that Monopoly in the US and EU. The difference as you pointed out is that the EU is fining them early and the US is unable to fine corporations as that's bad! There's obviously a lot that could be said here in regards to all of this but I doubt that neither of us has the energy to go through it all. All the EU want in this particular case is the full, 100% complete and accurate specifications to your API's and protocols, not the source code or clippy or anything else! And given your stance on competition you should be behind this, as it's not giving any of Microsoft's IP away (as they would if they were to release their source code), instead it's allowing a level playing field for real competition to take place! |
| #5 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/1/2006 11:30:08 PM |
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I studied the EG and EFTA and the emergence of the EU for 23 years....taught it in French to German students, too. The EEA - what one should really call the EU, is the European Economic Area - a vastly different socio-economic entity and much more powerful than the political union that is the modern EU - which strives to be seen as both...with a big problem...unlike the US, which has a strong central government and subordinate state governments [States and Others, born of our civil war], the EU must deal with separate and several strong central governments that are "members" of a largely economical union. Very few laws impact union members that are not superseded by independent state laws - "the state" in this context.
Even a unified currency is not quite universal - poorer members are underwritten by older, richer members and products even in France cost fewer Euros than in Great Britain - that scale is even wider in Portugal for example. In reality, Europeans are much more granular in their thinking. People living in a small village, will shout out "foreigner" to the drivers of cars from villages fewer than 20 kilometers away - not in an especially nasty way, but not in a friendly way, either. Intellectuals and professionals who profess to be more cosmopolitan, are no better and openly confront any person displaying traditional, or regional familiarity...no matter how innocently or naturally such expressions might be. The intellectuals are a tiny, but elect able minority - after all, they do run for office where most "lesser" people do not conceive of it. Tradesman, while respected in some cases - and in Europe this includes doctors and teachers, are a separate but lower class....and that is the real difference, "class" - one town, being even slightly larger and wealthier, will house people who will shout at passing cars from a smaller village, but defer and remain silent while transferring through a city. There is a constant and unspoken [in public], recognition of the classes. This is the real culturalization of European peoples. Americans are quite the opposite and either do not see such distinctions, or they ignore them and this infuriates European intellectuals - most especially since even poorer Americans [monetarily], may well be extremely well educated. Ardent and widespread nationalism is actually very hard for central European powers to advance - especially against really slick "Wir Sind Europa" marketing - I swear they were virtual copies of 60's era US Coke advertising...throngs of students all singing to the glory of a secular and unified Europe - while drinking Coke...I guess. All that as a really crude background... [sorry]...we have he EEA...EEEEE...I mean EU, opposite Microsoft. Forget philosophy. Forget ideology, or a sense of fairness and look dead in the eyes of the one thing all in the EU/EEA/EG/EFTA and even Great Britain [they remain the only truly independent European state, because they just can't NOT be British and thank God for that!] - that one thing is, "Money" in the form of excise taxes - applied to everything that enters the EU - except American soldiers' blood - we get to spend that tax free, but not guilt free. Forget legalities......the fines are a tax - and what, if any philosophy enters their equation, is a fair "price" for being so successful. Lesser benefits are seen as the blunting of US power and influence and of course, their nearly desperate attempts to secure what only Microsoft has - a true and complete platform and platform tools. |
| #6 By 23275 (68.17.42.38) at 2/1/2006 11:30:35 PM |
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The EU wants these tools and they want what they assess are fair excise taxes - call them fines if "you" like, but do not be mistaken...the US "will" fairly and aggressively compete in the global economy and it will do well - we do very well in business and that is what this is all about. It sure isn't about state nationalism in the minds of Europeans - that really only exists in the US, Great Britain, Australia, and white Russia [not race, but the place] - where we are first citizens of a state and members of different unions/organizations after that. Homogeneous states like China and North Korea are entirely different - culturalism, not nationalism is manifest as a state sponsored religion and that is very different. There is one other difference, too...European intellectuals don't even try to communicate what philosophy they may have to what they consider to be lower class peoples. Sure they attempt to shape votes, but they never expose what "they" are or what "they" think. American Presidents and British PM's for example, "must" explain - it's public law..."The President, from time to time, shall report to the Congress and the People, the State of The Union..." His/her audience can boo, too and they often have and do. No matter the "class" - they must explain.
Now, Chris H., here's my proof...how many TV sets and of what size does an average European house contain? What is the THK and what fines my they impose for any TV larger [you'll love this], than 9 (nine) inches? Can the THK lawfully enter any home and impose summary fines? and my personal favorite, what is the monthly tax imposed on any microwave oven? seem silly? nah.... they are all driven by excise taxes passed by the EU! Simply, the EU has ruled that Microsoft, because its platform a) exists and b) is successful, will both 1) pay what they assess to be "fair" taxes and 2) give them the platform tools, or "pay higher taxes" |
| #7 By 9589 (66.56.129.233) at 2/2/2006 1:09:06 AM |
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iketchum, well said!
Chris, you really crack me up. You fail to see the irony of your statements. On the one hand you, latch, and the other open sore nuts on this board tell us ad nasuem what crap Microsoft products are and how wonderful open sore or anything not Microsoft are. While on the other hand you argue that, for "competition's" sake, Microsoft should hand over <fill in the blanks here> to the EU. Obviously, the EU doesn't have quite the shine toward open sore products that you all have except where they can line their pockets while at the same time benefit open sore at Microsoft's expense. And what leavening of a the playing field is necessary? According to you, latch, etc. open sore are the ones with the superior products. It is open sore that should be providing a level playing field to Microsoft if your twisted view is to be believed. And, really, Chris isn't that what it comes down to. You and latch, et al, are for anything that hurts Microsoft and if that benefits any country but the United States so much the better. C'mon now. Own up! |
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