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  Announcing Submission of Office 12 XML Formats to ECMA International for Standardization
Time: 13:12 EST/18:12 GMT | News Source: Microsoft | Posted By: Jonathan Tigner

In this open letter to Office developers, Steven Sinofsky, Microsoft Senior Vice President in charge of Office, explains the rationale for Microsoft’s decision to ask Ecma International to assist Microsoft and its partners in pursuing formal standardization of the Office 12 XML format specifications.

Microsoft has also released the text of its covenant not to sue. This text replaces the previous format license:

In connection with our standards submission, we are also announcing a change to our license for the Office XML schemas. While our partners have told us that our current licensing approach is in line with typical standards submissions and the IPR policies at standards bodies, we want to further reduce any remaining questions about our interest in broad use of the document formats for the reasons I’ve already described. We believe a licensing change will help us achieve that objective. I instructed our team to come up with an approach that will settle the issue and clear the way for the broad use of the Office 12 XML formats. What we’re offering is an irrevocable covenant not to sue anyone for use of our XML format specifications. The actual language of the covenant appears here: www.microsoft.com/office/xml/covenant.mspx. The one significant caveat is that we reserve the right to defend our company if an individual or corporation sues us, claiming that our technology infringes their rights.

Update: Brian Jones - New approach to licensing with the Office XML formats

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#1 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 11/22/2005 1:42:13 PM
*cough* http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1892080,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 *cough*

#2 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 11/22/2005 1:51:17 PM
What I think is funny is how it has been exposed that Sun still has patents around OpenDocument:

http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2005-10-04-a.html

"On September 30, 2005 Sun Microsystems published a declaration of non-enforcement of its U.S. and foreign patents against any implementation of the Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) v1.0"


And Adobe has patents around PDF:

http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/support/topic_legal_notices.html

"Adobe has a number of patents covering technology that is disclosed in the Portable Document Format (PDF) Specification, version 1.3 and later, as documented in PDF Reference and associated Technical Notes (the "Specification")"


and morons like Latch and that eWeek open source fanatic whine about Microsoft.

OpenDocument is NOT truly open. Sun has patents on parts of it. PDF is NOT truly open. Adobe has patents on parts of it.

Latch and Vaugh-Nichols are out and out liars.


#3 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/22/2005 1:56:59 PM
<sarcasm>Sure, that isn't biased at all</sarcasm>.

RE: Patents - Others do the same thing, and it wasn't an issue to anyone. In fact, it's accepted practice.

Check out the patents on PDF. Adobe has them, licenses them solely for implementing PDF, and reserves the right to use them against you if you create technology covered by them that isn't a PDF implementation or you deviate from the standard for PDF.

MS did the same, in both the previous licenses and the new covenant, as well as in other open standards they've created or participated in.

<sarcasm>T'm really surprised that double-standards are being applied only to MS.</sarcasm>

#4 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/22/2005 1:58:50 PM
Beat me to it NotParker :-)

#5 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 11/22/2005 3:40:56 PM
#2: The key difference that you always seem to miss in these types of discussion, Parkker, is that neither Adobe nor Sun have license terms that deliberately restrict the GPL. As usual, you always seem to forget those facts that counter your pro-MS spin. Yes, Adobe and Sun have patents on their technology but they don't artificially prevent anyone from using it. No matter how MS tries to bend the word "open" to suit their needs, they never quite get it. Or, rather, they get it but can't gyrate fast enough to fool everyone.

Edit: Everyone except MS employees is not quite convinced. I don't know why, as MS has always been truthful & forthcoming in the past. It's not like they have a bad rep for dirty tricks or BS, so I'm scratching my head at their doubts.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1892155,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616


This post was edited by Latch on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 at 15:52.

#6 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/22/2005 4:52:32 PM
1) The GPL is not the only license for OSS and "compatibility" with it isn't required to be open. The GPL is restrictive in such a way that it tries to create an environment where it's the only license.

2) The covenant not to sue is the only thing you have to honor. There is no license now. The previous one was mainly "incompatible" w/ GPL due to attribution which is no different than the original BSD and other such licenses.

3) If you think you can (for example) use the GPL to create a PDF derivitive that doesn't conform to Adobe's standard yet be safe from legal action even though your implementation infringes on patents granted for implementing PDF, you're wrong, and it's no different than with MS.

4) How many times in the past has MS sued other software vendors or projects (even things like WINE) over infringement?

#7 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at 11/22/2005 4:58:13 PM
"is that neither Adobe nor Sun have license terms that deliberately restrict the GPL."

But the GPL is the most restictive of all licenses that pretend to be open source licenses. There are pages and pages of covenants and rules of what you are allowed to do and not do with GPL software.

The GPL is not open. The GPL is dishonestly coercive.

"Yes, Adobe and Sun have patents on their technology but they don't artificially prevent anyone from using it. "

Again, I remind you that Adobes patents clearly do prevent anyone using the so called open PDF standard from not following Adobes very clear rules on what you can and can't do with PDF.

" Authors of software that accepts input in the form of the
Portable Document Format must make reasonable efforts to ensure
that the software they create respects the access permissions
and permissions controls listed in Table 3.20 of the PDF
Reference[1], to the extent that they are used in any particular
document. These access permissions express the rights that the
document's author has granted to users of the document. It is
the responsibility of Portable Document Format consuming
software to respect the author's intent."

I'm sure if I spent 5 minutes I could find similar covenants from Sun and their patents on OpenDoc.

You are a liar Latch. And so are all your fellow Microsoft hating bigots.



#8 By 1845 (67.172.237.116) at 11/22/2005 6:53:00 PM
Microsoft Covenant Regarding Office 2003 XML Reference Schemas

Microsoft irrevocably covenants that it will not seek to enforce any of its patent claims necessary to conform to the technical specifications for the Microsoft Office 2003 XML Reference Schemas posted at http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/understanding/xmloffice/default.aspx (the “Specifications”) against those conforming parts of software products. This covenant shall not apply with respect to any person or entity that asserts, threatens or seeks at any time to enforce a patent right or rights against Microsoft or any of its affiliates relating to any conforming implementation of the Specifications.

This statement is not an assurance either (i) that any of Microsoft's issued patent claims cover a conforming implementation of the Specifications or are enforceable, or (ii) that such an implementation would not infringe patents or other intellectual property rights of any third party.

No other rights except those expressly stated in this covenant shall be deemed granted, waived or received by implication, or estoppel, or otherwise. In particular, no rights in the Microsoft Office product, including its features and capabilities, are hereby granted except as expressly set forth in the Specifications.



Umm, so where does this say that you can't read the format? that GPL is prohibited? or that Satan is giving Bill guidance in his sleep at night?

#9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 11/23/2005 8:47:09 AM
#6: 1-the GPL is the most common & popular license, so it matters the most. 2-I have not seen any announcement of the new license terms, or the revocation of the license altogether. 3-Derivative isn't the issue. I can create an app that reads & writes PDF and publish the source without worry. You couldn't do that with the original MS license, and that was the issue. 4-I have no idea.

#7: Irrelevant and incorrect. And yet, yet , yet again you're missing the point. Nobody faults Adobe for wanting to make sure that PDF isn't embraced & extended (now who would do that?), but they don't have artificial barriers to prevent GPL apps from using the technology.

#8: where in that tiny snippet of MS legalese does it say that GPL-covered apps can read & write MS XML? A covenant not to sue is not a license. I had read that the new license would not be announced until today, so I have yet to read it. But I still doubt very much that MS will nullify the conditions it included to exclude GPL apps from using the schemas, but we will see.

#10 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/23/2005 9:31:16 AM
There is no new license. There is only the covenant. The covenant replaces the old license. If you can develop your implementation within the terms of the covenant then you should have no problems. MS' covenant is pretty similar to Sun's except there is no reciprocity requirement in the MS covenant.

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/office/ipr.php

BTW, neither Sun's nor Adobe's legalese makes specific claims or exceptions (or even mention) for the GPL. The GPL issue is overblown anyway. There are already cases today where less-restrictive OSS licenses are used to indirectly connect with GPL code.

This post was edited by n4cer on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 at 09:39.

#11 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 11/23/2005 12:56:45 PM
#10: does this covenant also apply to the new Office Open XML or only the old Office 2003 XML? When it comes to MS, there is always a string attached.

#12 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/23/2005 1:50:54 PM
It currently applies to 2003 formats as they are final. When the Office 12 formats are submitted to ECMA it will apply to them as well. The details (the actual covenant text) are linked to from the open letter that this blurb links to. There's also a link to Brian Jones' blog with an explaination of the covenant.

Here's a direct link to the covenant:

http://www.microsoft.com/office/xml/covenant.mspx

RE: strings attached -- the process with submitting the Office formats to ECMA/ISO is no different than the submission of the CLI, C#, and C++/CLI specs to the same organizations or the submission/development of other technologies with various organizations (WS-*, XMLHTTP, etc.). Have there been strings attached to those technologies? There have been people trying to take the availability of those technologies as meaning they were also free to clone proprietary technologies built atop those standards by MS, but not covered under the standard.

This is my opinion, but expect more MS products to be based around standard and/or XML formats as WinFS gets closer to completion, though there will likely be some special cases where some apps will use proprietary formats as necessary.

This post was edited by n4cer on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 at 13:55.

#13 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at 11/23/2005 1:57:02 PM
#12: Another take, via Paul Thurrott:

"Critics: Microsoft's "Open" Office Format Not So Open

So Microsoft's bid to open up its Office 12 data formats as international standards hasn't really done much to sway critics. Sam Hiser, a Linux consultant whose opinion I trust, writes in his blog about a line-by-line interpretation of Microsoft's agreement to not sue developers and others who choose to utilize these formats. The conclusion is somewhat shocking: The agreement applies only to the XML-based formats in Office 2003 and not Office 12, and since Office 12 is a full year away from release, he says that the Microsoft announcement is pure PR baloney aimed at freezing the market and dimming chances that the competing OpenDocument format will gain traction. I'd be startled to discover that was the case if, you know, Microsoft hadn't done that kind of thing so many times in the past. In any event, Sam's posts on this topic are good reading."

http://www.plexnex.com/

#14 By 2459 (24.175.136.242) at 11/23/2005 2:08:32 PM
Critics will be critics. They still criticize Mono, saying they are stupid for following an MS standard. Before that, they criticized the CLI, et al, standards submission itself. It's the same thing here. The covenant only applies to current formats because those are the only ones available. The covenant isn't on ECMA's site because MS has yet to submit the formats to ECMA.

#15 By 32132 (142.32.208.231) at 11/23/2005 3:46:15 PM
"and since Office 12 is a full year away from release"

Office 12 is not finished. Office 12's XML format is not finished. How can you submit something to the ECMA that is not finished yet?

You and Thurrott are dumber than a sack of hammers.

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#25 By 4240821 (109.94.216.41) at 11/5/2023 9:41:48 AM
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