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| Time: 00:00 EST/05:00 GMT | News Source: Silicon | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
|
It is easy to get religious about operating systems. We receive emails every week from sys admins fighting the open source cause (though often at the same time forced to work with Windows or Solaris, for example), or MDs happy with their Microsoft environments and telling everyone else to grow up. Those are two instances. Perhaps to get even more general, we could say there are millions of open source software advocates out there and one big closed source OS backer. That Microsoft is also the most successful OS vendor says something about millions of quiet Windows users. It's what politicians might have once called the Silent Majority. | ||
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| #1 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 12/5/2002 1:33:33 AM |
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#1 - "Mac OS X is the fastest climbing, in terms of marketshare, operating system in the world right now"
Back it up. Show me the study. Show me the numbers. Then again, Windows has pretty much saturated the market. They can't really go up anymore... since their damn close to 100% these days. Apple has no place to go but up, so doubling their market share might be an increase of perhaps a few thousand users... and saying they're the "fastest growing", while perhaps literally true, is very misleading for most people. Anyway... show me the numbers. "There seems to be an institutional resistance in some quarters of the press to seeing the rise again of the great Apple." I don't think that's true... the media tend to LOVE Apple, but they can't go around ignoring facts just to support the Apple Pychosis. But would you blame them? We've been hearing about the "rise of Apple" for many years now... and they've produced what? Colorful cases? |
| #2 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 12/5/2002 8:18:27 AM |
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"We've been hearing about the "rise of Apple" for many years now... and they've produced what? Colorful cases?"
Yes, and we've also been hearing about the Death of Apple for years now. And they've continued to be the only true innovators amongst the major manufacturers. They have margins that all others would give anything for, a loyal user base that is second to none, several billion in the bank with NO long-term debt and the the best overall operating system one can use in MacOS X. There are 27 MILLION Macintoshes in use at the last count I saw. Regardless of where that puts them market-share wise, that's a whole lot of computers. As I've said before, I don't discount any platform. I use both PC's and Mac's, and in fact my PC's (servers included) outnumber my Mac's 4 to 1. I use each according to it's gifts. I have zero issues with the PC platform. The only issues I have are with certain business practices of companies, and that includes Microsoft AND Apple. TL |
| #3 By 8589 (66.169.174.34) at 12/5/2002 9:33:26 AM |
| Why this "My Camp" vs "Your Camp" mentality? Why not do as many do, use whatever OS meets the need for what you are trying to do? I have a triple boot system. WinME/WinXP/Mandrake 9.0 on my PC. Soon I hope to have seperate computers that are dedicated to each, but right now money and space are major constraints. |
| #4 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/5/2002 10:43:45 AM |
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Realist - Truth hurts, don't it?
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| #5 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/5/2002 12:26:23 PM |
| As for Apple, if they had produced the Tablet PC, Steve Jobs would have had it lowered from the ceiling at a Mac convention as if from heaven itself, there would be much applause, cheering, and tears of joy from the Apple faithful, and the media would hail it as yet another--but particularly glorious--example of just how innovative Apple is. Of course, when Microsoft introduces it, the word "innovative" is hardly mentioned... no, it's simply an application of existing technology. Like the iPod wasn't... like the iMac (first-gen or lamp) wasn't... like the iMovie, iTunes, iChat, i-etc. apps weren't.... They're so blinded by their Apple-smitten hearts and their agenda to proselytize the Mac that they can't see things for what they are, at least when there's an Apple or Microsoft logo involved. |
| #6 By 4209 (67.97.216.252) at 12/5/2002 12:41:45 PM |
| I am a Network Admin and my bread and butter system is an AS/400. All other Servers and all workstations are NT/2000. |
| #7 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 12/5/2002 1:03:57 PM |
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nomdlev:
Integrity? Give me a break. It's more like you've been brain-washed into thinking that Apple is the greatest contribution to man-kind. Just WindowsXP itslef (which came out AFTER OSX) has more market share than Apple has as a whole. I would hardly call OSX the fastest growing OS out there when WinXP has already climbed far above OSX in user-base. Sometimes I wonder if people are actually that STUPID, or if someone is just registering different user names and posting trollish CRAP. |
| #8 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 12/5/2002 1:08:35 PM |
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#14 - Again, show me the numbers. I take nothing on faith... everybody on this site should know that by now.
#6 - "Yes, and we've also been hearing about the Death of Apple for years now. And they've continued to be the only true innovators amongst the major manufacturers" Give me an example of a innovation within the last 5 years from Apple. Different case shapes and colors don't count. And remember, according to Apple zealots, innovation is defined as a truly original idea that has little or no precursor. |
| #9 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/5/2002 1:10:30 PM |
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No, nomdlev... XP is the fastest growing, and there are figures to prove it... for example:
http://news.cnet.com/investor/news/newsitem/0-9900-1028-20481055-0.html In both the case of XP and OS X, they primarily take away market share from their own predecessors. But in no way can you construe that OS X is the fastest growing desktop OS--that's simply not true. |
| #10 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/5/2002 2:49:42 PM |
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This is coming from someone that yesterday claimed Apple invented/developed plastic.
Interesting that "Nobody takes WebSideStory seriously...." Hmmm... MacCentral does: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/09.marketshare.php How about a survey of how many Flash users are on OS X? http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/user_profile.html How about the Mac Observer: http://www.macobserver.com/comments/commentindivdisplay.shtml?id=13256 Realize that, even at 2%, this is considerably less than the market share of Windows XP, which was released after OS X. IT-Enquirer also points to OS X only making up 20% of all the Mac OS installed base: http://it-enquirer.com/macosx/macosxsuccess.html If you're going to say something like "Mac OS X is the fastest growing desktop in terms of percentage. That cannot be disputed. Steve Jobs has certified it," you're going to have to back it up with facts. |
| #11 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/5/2002 3:06:19 PM |
| If it can't be disputed, no facts are required. :-) |
| #12 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/5/2002 3:30:16 PM |
| Then, nomdlev, kindly point us to where Steve Jobs makes this claim. If Windows XP has grown to 20+% market share after OS X was released, and OS X has at best 2% market share to date, how on earth can it be the fastest-growing OS? Is it the fastest growing Mac OS??? I think you're confused. |
| #13 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 12/5/2002 5:07:33 PM |
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nomdlev is also the same (word that starts with an i and ends with a t) who claimed that somehow AppleScript was more powerful than all of .NET
nom: you seem to not undertsand the concept of acceleration, velocity, and position. The (according to you) "fact" that OSX has 36% market share among Mac users is merely the position. The (again, according to you) "fact" that XP has 17% marketshare among Windows users is merely a position. What you are trying to say is that MacOSX has a greater rate of adoption than XP, which it CERTAINLY does not as it's distance/time, or marketshare%/time. |
| #14 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/5/2002 5:25:39 PM |
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"Compare being able to script adding 1000 new students to a college system from a text file containing their names (complete with auto generated passwords (pwgen), and the letters to send out telling them how to log on), and having to click through the "Add User" dialog 1000 times, thinking up a password each time, remembering to send out the letter."
I'm constantly amazed at just how little RichardJC knows about Windows. Apparently 'cscript addusers.vbs addusers.xls' is too hard for him, because he has to point and click? This post was edited by sodablue on Thursday, December 05, 2002 at 17:31. |
| #15 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/5/2002 5:51:09 PM |
| steve (#29) and steve (#30), Darn good points. |
| #16 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/5/2002 6:21:22 PM |
|
btw, nomdlev... be careful about trusting Steve Jobs... remember about the .Mac services, and how we were once told that the services would be "free for life"?
http://www.petitiononline.com/iTol/petition.html Why don't you mosey over to this site for evidence of a little bit more of Steve Jobs's trustworthiness: http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/qed/apple.html This has many quotes from Jobs that are outright lies. We all remember the ads about how a G3/G4 eats a Pentium-III for lunch, etc. Yeah, and all those stories about how Apple/Jobs is disappointed with the performance of the Motorolla processors, how they are courting IBM for their next CPU, etc., are all just rumors. Look closely at not one, but MANY benchmarks linked there--see how well the vaunted G4 "supercomputer" CPU does. Then compare that with all the Jobs quotes about Mac performance vs. the PC. |
| #17 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/5/2002 7:08:35 PM |
| That was some good reading, bluvg. Thanks for the links. |
| #18 By 7754 (216.160.8.41) at 12/6/2002 10:57:33 AM |
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nomdlev, in case you missed it, go back and look at the digitalvideoediting.com report linked from the site I posted earlier:
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm You'll see that, not only is a G4 1.25 GHz processor slower than a PIV 3.06 GHz processor, but that TWO G4 1.25 GHz processors are slower than a PIV 3.06 GHz processor. And that's for pet Mac applications--digital video editing, photo editing, etc. |
| #19 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/6/2002 11:46:59 AM |
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kudos, Richard your Linux of 2002 is better than NT of 1996 and from that you draw a conclusion. I think RMD needs to teach you a lesson in logic, because your post lacked it. You obviously don't know much about Windows 2000. I assume that you know even less about Windows.NET Server 2003. Since you don't know much about the products you are attacking, why don't you stop attacking them, get some experience with Windows 2000 and Windows.NET Server 2003, then come back and make some meaningful comments. Right now your comments sound extremely foolish to anyone who knows anything about admining Windows 2000.
FYI, in its day Windows NT 4 Servers did there job well. Windows 2000 was certainly an improvement. Windows.NET Server 2003 is an improvement on Windows 2000. |
| #20 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 12/6/2002 2:18:46 PM |
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RichardJC - "I suppose the adduser scenario was so often quoted that Microsoft had to do something about it."
I've been using adduser scripts since 1996. The scripts have improved over the years, the one I quoted was for Win2k that came out in like 1999 during the beta and used input from an Excel spreadsheet. "Its had some minor upgrades but not much has changed. I still rate it above NT." Of course you do, because you know nothing about Windows. "A nice thing with self build is that you get to choose which corners to cut. " All of my boxes are self build... never had an issue with Windows. I've had more issues with OS/2, Linux, etc. because I had to be more particular about choosing the right parts. |
| #21 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 12/6/2002 2:42:23 PM |
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Does Windows.NET Server 2003 exist yet? If you've been reading the news, you'd new it just entered Release Candidate 2. So, yeah, it exists. It isn't RTM, but it is pretty dang close. The launch is set for April 2003, I think. Join the CPP and try it out.
As for the Windows crowd attacking Linux. There is a lot to be said about that. There are some great truths that need to be understood. Historically, Unix has been hard to work with for the average user, but was very stable as a server. MacOS was pretty, but had little software and offered very little to developers. Windows was very good at crashing, but had a lot of software. Linux does't implement all the features of Unix, nor does it have the richness of API's, software, etc that Windows has, but it is free. Choose what suits you. From my perspective, Linux is next to worthless. I can be significantly more productive as a developer with the tools, APIs, third party components, documentation, tutorials, conferences, managed newsgroups, etc than I can be with Linux. Further, the installed base of desktop Windows system is far greater than the install base of all of ther desktop OSes combined. As a desktop application developer (or even as a web application developer) Linux is insignifican't to me. That's my perspective based on what I do, based on what the market has chosen, based on what I expect the market to do. Of course there are financial reasons for a paid programmer to not support open source or free software development. I don't want to get into that now though. A final note. It doesn't really matter to me who attacks what. I do, though, get tired of reading your posts blasting Windows when you don't know what you are talking about. You are far more familiar with Linux than I am, but I have explained (and can document) that my reasons for being extremely disinterested in Linux are sound. If you want to get me started on why I think free software programmers and open source developers are fools, than hit me up for that conversation next week. |
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