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Ballmer: Mod chips threaten Xbox | |
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| Time: 00:04 EST/05:04 GMT | News Source: CNET | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Thanks Sodajerk. "CEO Steve Ballmer said Microsoft may pull its Xbox game console from the Australian market because of a court decision that legitimizes "mod chips" for hackers, an Australian newspaper reported. Mod chips are gray-market add-ons that, once soldered to a console's main circuit board, defeat security systems and enable the machine to run legally and illegally copied discs, import games and homemade software. " | ||
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| #1 By 2960 (156.80.64.132) at 10/22/2002 8:44:43 AM |
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A win for consumers for a change. Cool.
Sorry if Mr. Balmer doesn't like losing control of product that people PAID for, and should be able to use in any way they see fit. TL |
| #2 By 135 (208.50.201.48) at 10/22/2002 11:27:36 AM |
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I don't understand why anybody needs or wants to mod the XBox. It does a fine job of playing games and dvds as it is. Last night I watched Brotherhood of the Wolf using my XBox, no problems.
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| #3 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/22/2002 1:43:08 PM |
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JeffChapnet - Actually all of my music collection is legally purchased.
If a friend of mine has a CD that I want to know about, I borrow it and listen to it. If I like it, I got buy my own copy... If I don't... I just give it back to my friend. |
| #4 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 1:54:16 PM |
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Realist your argument is just as stupid. Can you only use a CDR burner to copy copyrighted materials illegally? No, there are legitimate uses as well. Same for modchips. Do some allow for copyright protection circumvention, yes? But primarily they are geared to augment the features of the XBox and to run additional software on the hardware. That's legal. in Australia.
Do you think your dumb ass refrigerator analogy makes any sense? It doesn't. It would actually be illegal in THIS country to do something as assinine as that. So here's the point: it's legal to have modchips in Australia. It's not legal to steal copyrighted works. And that could bury the X-Box? Let's look at that: Australia has under 20,000,000 people. Say 25% of these people will never buy the X-Box--aboriginees, the infirm and aged, children too young, etc... So you've got a potential market of say 15 million... Let's say Microsoft can be honest with themselves and realize that their market is really only 66% of this market--let's just say 10,000,000. Now let's assume everyone of them is going to buy the X-Box, and 1 in 100 X-Box potential buyers are also willing to whip out the soldering gun and potentially destroy their new purchase... (I think that's being awfully generous and should be closer to 1 in 500, but...) That means 100,000 modded X-Boxes would be out there. (Realize that this is EXTREMELY generous to MS--this is over 2% of all X-Boxes worldwide sold to date! Not exactly 1 in 100 modders (1 in 50 of all worldwide users), nevermind what they've done, or haven't, in the small market of Australia.) Ballmer is actually saying they have to pull the X-Box from this market and/or Australia has to change its laws to protect his little old company, and only his little old company, because otherwise the razor-thin and probably nonexistent margins they have calculated would be destroyed by 100,000 boxen ($20,000,000 in retail hardware) overnight! That's it, that's all it takes to put the X-Box out of competition--the lost profits from 100,000 geeky ass Aussies! And remember, I've been very generous to Microsoft--they're actually saying something like 50,000 or less (if they have anything close to realistic projections) consumers could put the whole X-Box enterprise under! Ha, Ha, Ha. Maybe instead of asking Australia to change their copyright laws, Microsoft should have avoided spending 4 Billion dollars if they can be put out of business by 50,000 teens. Think about it. I can hardly believe how pathetic the X-Box manages to prove itself with each new news story. Meanwhile Sony has surpassed 40,000,000 units and each day closer to Xmas brings that number closer to 50+ million. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 14:10. |
| #5 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/22/2002 2:02:07 PM |
| sodajerk - The Sony playstation has the same issues as the XBox... the only difference is that Sony just sues the hell out of the bastards, and it never receives press coverage. |
| #6 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 2:07:21 PM |
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soda, that's pathetic--yes, Sony faces modchips. They tolerate some, prosecute some, do there best to make it hard for them. They've faced it for years, and it hasn't changed their business outlook. If anything, despite the growing knowledge of the modchip community, their business outlook continues to improve. I haven't heard them say they have to pull the product from market because their mere fact that it's legal in one country of the world to use such add-ons would evaporate the business over night. I'd love to read something where they even call it a serious threat, soda; could you point me in the direction of such hilarity? Never receives press coverage, my ass; I've read about this crap for years. Sure, Sony protects themselves but they don't cry and take their ball home.
See, in this case, my point has nothing to do with whether or not I think MS is doing something right or wrong, if other companies would, should, or could do the same thing. My point is simply this, and this only applies to Microsoft: they are in a pathetic economic situation, in terms of the X-Box, and it should be overwhelmingly apparent to the biggest moron that they are 100% subsidizing the entire multibillion dollar venture, and it will never be profitable... if we are to believe Ballmer at all. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 14:15. |
| #7 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/22/2002 3:57:03 PM |
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sodajerk - Do a google search for 'sony playstation lawsuit'.
That way you won't look like an idiot the next time you post. |
| #8 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 4:01:11 PM |
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What idiot? I agreed that Sony has sued modders, d!psh!t! I said I'm not commenting on retaliating against modders, I'm commenting on the fact that Ballmer is saying that a small community of modders in Australia can kill the profitability of the entire X-Box enterprise! Show me one single instance where anyone from Sony said that they are afraid that the PS2 is unprofitable because of Australia's laws or because of modders. Please, Please do. This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 16:55. |
| #9 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 5:01:40 PM |
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tripix, when do AU "legalize" pirating? They haven't. They have a copyright law similarly strong as the DCMA. Modding doesn't violate MS's copyrights, and it's as big an assumption to say that if you own a modded console you are "pirating" as it is to say that if you own a computer you are "pirating." This post was edited by sodajerk on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 17:02. |
| #10 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/22/2002 5:03:02 PM |
| sodajerk - Obviously if all of your claims were true, Sony would not be suing companies like Connectix. Give me a break, I'm tired of all your anti-Microsoft whining. The point is Sony has the same position on this as Microsoft, in fact they lost in an Australian court over these modchips once already(Hmm, wonder why they sued when mod chips are so beneficial to them?). The sole issue here is whether or not you yell about it as loudly for each company equally, and I think we all know the answer to that one. |
| #11 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 5:09:15 PM |
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No, soda, you are an idiot, not following my very simple words. They are in the same boat, they have done the same things. What is different is MS is threatening to pull out of Australia and are saying that modders (or shall we use the Aussie "chippers") can destroy the profitability of the X-Box entirely. Can you read? Would you like me to say it again?
Yes, both companies have had the same thing happen and both have responded similarly but with one big exception: MS is threatening to pull out of Australia and are saying that modders (or shall we use the Aussie "chippers") can destroy the profitability of the X-Box entirely. Get it yet. I'm not whining about the response, or complaining about how they are behaving. I'm laughing at their pathetic asses for crying, "Mommy" and threatening to take their ball home. That's what is different. Yes, Sony lost this exact same case in Australia six months ago... Have they pulled out of Australia? Hey, tripix, do you see PS2s in Australia? I thought so. And since, MS is so freaking afraid of "chippers" and since Sony did lose the case, well, in July, why did they ever go to Australia in the first place? Why did they think they were going to win? But anyway, my point is, and I'll repeat it a few times for your ignorant, illiterate ass: Yes, both companies have had the same thing happen and both have responded similarly but with one big exception: MS is threatening to pull out of Australia and are saying that modders (or shall we use the Aussie "chippers") can destroy the profitability of the X-Box entirely. Yes, both companies have had the same thing happen and both have responded similarly but with one big exception: MS is threatening to pull out of Australia and are saying that modders (or shall we use the Aussie "chippers") can destroy the profitability of the X-Box entirely. |
| #12 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 5:41:32 PM |
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stu, I'm not saying anything about pirating, or the right to protect your investments, or anything like that.... I'm commenting on the fact that 50,000 (which I think is way overblown) modders are threatening the overall profitability of the X-Box... That's hilarious and pathetic. I'm only making a financial observation--MS is screwed if they have to threaten to pull out of markets because such a neglible loss can destroy their plans. My position can be interpreted 2 ways: either MS is once again threatening to take their ball home to get what they want, or they are seriusly in danger of getting crushed in the console business.
I don't care about them going after the mod community, both have done it with moderate success, bully for them... but I am saying that while pursuing the same tactics as MS, Sony can live with a small percentage exploiting the situation--yes, they sue, lobby, and try to stop it, yes. But they aren't pulling out of markets or releasing statements saying that the PS2 cannot be profitable. Can people follow this? How many times, how many ways do I have to say it? |
| #13 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 10/22/2002 6:18:21 PM |
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Still ignorning Sodajerk...
gt... Microsoft is not losing in the Australian market. They have consistently beaten Nintendo there... both in console and game sales. Check your facts please. TechLarry - you give libertarians a bad name. Stubear is dead right with his analogy. You, on the other hand... are encouraging theft. Its a shame you have never created anything original... for which you could obtain a patent or trademark or other designation that it is your intellectual property. THEN, you would certainly change your mind. TechLarry, do you even own a console? If not... consider waiting to post comments on topics where you actually have a CLUE. This post was edited by mooresa56 on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 18:20. |
| #14 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/22/2002 6:24:58 PM |
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stu, I'm disagreeing that I am taking the position you presume me to be taking. That disagreement = you don't udnerstand if you are putting an argument into my mouth that I am not making.
You say, they are being hurt in Australia; okay, they're screwed. Note: Ballmer isn't saying the worldwide modchip market is destroying the profitability of tyhe X-Box in Australia; he is very clearly stating that this small market and this law suit is threatening the overall worldwide profitability of the X-Box. If that is true, they are screwed. Mooresa, you aren't ignoing me at all; you're going into every thread I post, and saying, I'm ignoring you, but I'll throw out some stupid insults that make no sense and have no basis. By the way, I have published a few stories, created plenty of copyrighted and trademark art as a graphic designer... in fact, I have 7 logos specifically which are trademarked by others. One by myself. When did I encourage theft, d!psh!t? |
| #15 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/23/2002 12:10:53 AM |
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I really wish that people wouldn't make ignorant comments, so I wouldn't have to defend my rival. ; - )
stu, of all the people that post on this site, I'd say that jerk is the most likely to be involved in graphic design, UI design, usability, etc. Though with things he says about graphic design, he is certainly informed in that regard. I see no reason to doubt his ability as a graphic artist. (Whether he has foolish arguments agains XBOX, btw, have nothing to do with being a graphic artists.) ...considering joining a new site where folks can discuss issues out of logic and reason rather than passion and pride. |
| #16 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/23/2002 1:00:43 AM |
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"Somehow I doubt you're a graphic designer. Personally I'd love to laugh at, er I meant look at, these logos to see what kind of graphic designer you are or if you're just a putz who drew some cheesy logos. "
What evidence do you have that he's not a graphic designer? What evidence do you have that his logos are cheesy? Perhaps I shouldn't have said ignorant comments. Perhaps baseless accusations would have been better. I see no evidence for you to make such a personal attack. I think it was very childish and very uncalled for. As for you being a graphic designer, if you really are, then think what it feels like to have your work attacked. Even if you don't care for the attacker, there was still no need for you to attack his work which you've never seen. |
| #17 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/23/2002 1:03:55 AM |
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lol @ z00ker.
I think jerk's position is that Microsoft is behaving childishly over the whole affair and that Sony is more dignified about it. I don't see that jerk is advocating copyright violations. |
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