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Can a Hacker Outfox Microsoft? | |
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||
| Time: 08:26 EST/13:26 GMT | News Source: Wired | Posted By: Robert Stein | ||
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Microsoft only announced Palladium -- its initiative to build anti-copying technology into the hardware and operating system of a PC -- a few months ago. It's already causing a great deal of consternation within the cypherpunk and hacker communities. | ||
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| #1 By 6859 (204.71.100.216) at 10/18/2002 8:48:45 AM |
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"It's already causing a great deal of consternation within the cypherpunk and hacker communities."
Uh...wash't that the point?... |
| #2 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/18/2002 8:54:22 AM |
| I guess that would be one point for palladium. If they bad guys don't like it, it is probably because it is a good thing. |
| #3 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/18/2002 9:08:03 AM |
| Professionally speaking, Lucky Green is a dork. |
| #4 By 2960 (68.100.157.191) at 10/18/2002 9:14:17 AM |
|
It also causes a great deal of concern for those of us who believe that our PC's are OUR PC's, and it's no one elses business what we do with them.
Palladium isn't about security. It's about large corporations being able to control what and when we do on our own computers. and you'll never convince me otherwise. They can stick Palladium where the sun don't shine. TL |
| #5 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/18/2002 9:29:08 AM |
| One difference, nos, is that Network Computers were a Sun and Oracle idea. Microsoft didn't support them. Palladium has the support of Microsoft, but I've yet to see Sun or Oracle weigh in on it. |
| #6 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/18/2002 10:15:46 AM |
| I'm confused. Palladium isn't an anti-copying technology... why do they mention it as such? |
| #7 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 10/18/2002 10:17:09 AM |
|
TechLarry,
It seems all Apple computers will have Palladium by 2005. Check the press release... http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/oct/188palladiumosx.html |
| #8 By 3653 (63.162.177.140) at 10/18/2002 10:17:28 AM |
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Sike!
oh, that was mean. |
| #9 By 931 (66.180.122.28) at 10/18/2002 10:44:06 AM |
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They can stick Palladium where the sun don't shine.
I'm with techlarry on this one. L.Green's idea maybe a longshot but hey it's worth a try.. why not :) Ultimately though if he get it someone will just pay him millions to license it.. I mean if you had the patent and MS came to you and said hmm would you license that patent to us for 15 year for say 500million.. I'd be like umm hell yes.. |
| #10 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/18/2002 2:12:51 PM |
| Trip, some folks would rather be paranoid and completely wrong, than accept the facts. |
| #11 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/18/2002 2:24:45 PM |
|
lol, Tripwire. How do you think I feel after posting factual Palladium info all the time (the latest posting was yesterday -- Did no one read it?)? Some people will just never bother to look at the facts, and instead, spread their own (and other people's) assumptions. :-)
I call it pulling info out of their ASSumptions. :-) This post was edited by n4cer on Friday, October 18, 2002 at 14:27. |
| #12 By 7746 (213.93.165.242) at 10/18/2002 5:30:43 PM |
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Pallidium is Microsofts answer to the DCMA law.
This chip forms the basis for a lot of copy protecting methods, whetever it is for protecting illegal software from running, whetever it is to prevent copying video's and music. It can even limmited when and where media can be played. Of course, the RIAA will welcome it with open hands. The software industry will welcome it with open hands. The Media industry will welcome it with open hands. You bet Microsoft will try to tell it to the public as something positive (they tell proberbly that by now you can authorise emails (and stop spam) and authenticate yourself against a bank-s website). Things like that. Oh BTW, anonymous on the Internet is basically over. More and more Website will start requiring authentication by this palledium chip. In fact, all the digital rights stuff already included in Media Player 9 can be made effectively. Things like playing only 5 times, one CD copy for in your car, only between 10-12 april, not before may 5, not in Europe, only on standalone CDROM and not in a computer, etc etc. And if they use appropriate RSA keylengths in this chip (and there is no reason why not), it cannot be cracked. It took 4 years to crack a 64 bit RSA key, with that respect is takes 2^64 times 4 years to crack 128 bits. Why not set it to 2048 or higher. Get it! BTW, is this idea of this chip new? No, there have been talks for over 15 years. Even the US government wanted to have this type of chip in every TV set out there! Oh well, maybe we have to start MODDING our computer too (like we do with our game consoles), if the palledium chip comes to our computers. |
| #13 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/18/2002 6:32:12 PM |
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1. If it's there, you can't mod it. It will be part of the core logic of the CPU and add-on cards.
2. Palladium is not DRM. It can be used to increase the security of software DRM. 3. Palladium does not restrict you from running normal content, nor does it monitor the content you use. The Palladium hardware/software combination provides a set of services for developers to code against. An application must specifically utilize the Palladium API to get the benefits of the system. 4. Palladium runs in parallel only with Palladium-supporting software. It does not control what is run on a system. It does not control the boot process. You can use all software you currently use. You can boot non-Palladium OSes. 5. What Palladium does is secure the paths data takes as it travels throughout the computer. From input (keyboard, mouse, etc. -- preventing the use of keystroke or other input loggers), to memory (masks application memory space, protecting programs from viruses and other malicious code), to output devices (monitors, etc.). Utilizing the full Palladium system will require software and hardware (CPU, Motherboard, and add-in cards, etc.) that are built to support Palladium. |
| #14 By 2332 (65.221.182.3) at 10/18/2002 8:24:58 PM |
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Sigh... the outrage over Palladium is a great example of people not knowing the facts about something, making assumptions, and then spreading their own misinformation so they can infect other minds.
It would be a great study for Memeticists. Palladium IS NOT MANDATORY. You do NOT HAVE TO USE IT. If you want to access certain media provides (such as an online movie site that is Palladium only), you will have to use it through Palladium. If you want to play an mp3 off your hard drive, HAVE FUN. Palladium will allow media providers (including software publishers) to feel safe in distributing their product because they know it cannot be pirated and stolen. THIS DOES NOT PREVENT YOU FROM USING NON-PALLADIUM MEDIA SOURCES FREELY AND WITHOUT RESTRICTION. Get it? |
| #15 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/19/2002 4:50:34 AM |
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If the protection is totally in software, it will be hacked, and can be used on multiple systems. With Palladium, hacking one system does not allow you to use the same method for hacking another.
Palladium is not proprietary. The spec will be open for implementation by anyone. The only proprietary part of Palladium is MS' implementation of its features is Windows. Other system and/or OS vendors (including Linux) will be able to build their own software implementations. Read the FAQ. The only people that don't agree that MS writes good software are the ignorant and/or the jealous. Besides that, there are plenty of industry leaders in other fields hated by other players in the field. The RIAA and MPAA and larger labels/studios are hated by smaller studios, some artists, and consumers. The RIAA is especially hated by internet radio broadcasters. IBM used to be the bad guy of the industry. Sun is hated by MS, Intel and (to an extent) IBM, as well as others in the industry. AOL is despised by other "real" ISPs. This post was edited by n4cer on Saturday, October 19, 2002 at 04:51. |
| #16 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/19/2002 8:09:08 PM |
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Richard, you are full of FUD. Tell me this, does Microsoft make CPUs? Would the #1 CPU vendor tie itself once again to Microsoft after recently loosing the bond it had with Microsoft? I can't see a good reason that Intel would support Palladium, if it knew that Windows would be the only OS that could run on it. That is counter is Intel's recent business practices.
You still haven't stated a single reason why Palladium is not a good idea. I doubt you understand what Palladium is. I think you are a drone who likes to complain about things that Microsoft does. I think you like to spread FUD. I think you like to pretend like you understand the computing world, but you really don't at all understand the Windows world in general and Microsoft's product offerings in specific. As an aside, the market leader is always hated by its competitors. For examples you can look at the previous monopolies or near monopolies - Standard Oil, Sears, AT&T (before the break up). You can also look at just about every leader who isn't a monopoly - AMD vs Intel, HP vs Dell, everybody vs AOL. Burger King vs McDonald's. Coke vs Pepsi. Procter and Gamble vs SC Jonhson Wax. Competition is a very lively and thriving part of United States businesses. I'm sure it is elsewhere, but I'm more acquainted with US businesses, so I'll not comment on others. |
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