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Longhorn Update | |
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| Time: 11:16 EST/16:16 GMT | News Source: ActiveWin.com | Posted By: Byron Hinson | ||
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Ok for all those doubters - the screenshots posted by Winbeta.org from Longhorn are real. We have received screenshot after screenshot of fakes over the last few months but finally on Saturday proper ones came out. Here are some other snippets of news that have trickled through to us from Microsoft today.
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| #1 By 1401 (24.74.50.234) at 10/21/2002 11:36:33 AM |
| I love the idea of the sidebar, but it takes too much screen space on a regular monitor. I think it would be great on a monitor like the Apple Cinema displays... |
| #2 By 1295 (216.84.210.100) at 10/21/2002 11:38:15 AM |
| can anybody get to WinBeta.org... site seems down |
| #3 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/21/2002 11:40:36 AM |
| You say the news trickled to you. You didn't say that confirmation of the screenshoots trickled to you. But anyway, who really cares at this point. It'll look nothing like this by the time it goes gold anyway. |
| #4 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 10/21/2002 11:42:37 AM |
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No offense Byron, but there were too many inconsistencies and errors in those screenshots for me to think they're real. Perhaps some of them are real or they're based on the real thing, but some of them were definately touched up.
Until I see an email from someone@microsoft.com, I'm going to doubt it. |
| #5 By 371 (213.84.34.9) at 10/21/2002 12:34:31 PM |
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posted more pics on my site.
Side bar can be on or of, startmenu can be integrated in sidebar. Windows XP can still be seen in many places in the build, this is an alpha! The contnue to build on XP, this is for internal development, the dont prioritise to replace names in the code. infact when you install LH the whole setup says WindowsXP http://www.windowsxp.nu This post was edited by Bink on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 12:34. |
| #6 By 20 (24.243.41.64) at 10/21/2002 12:45:55 PM |
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#10: Riiigggghhttt....
They've never had a problem with it in the past from what I've seen. Also, for the text, there's only a few places in the registry where the name is stored, so it can't be that hard to replace it. Also, some of the context menus and buttons look WindowBlinds-ish (or Aqua-ish) which gives it away as a skin. |
| #7 By 371 (213.84.34.9) at 10/21/2002 12:51:48 PM |
| #10 what did you see in the past? |
| #8 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/21/2002 1:03:48 PM |
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Well, that Display Properties error shows a managed code dump. I think I'm convinced (or close to it). Like I said earlier, maybe they're just using XP as a working platform they can use to test the managed interfaces so they can do the API conversion work at the same time they are rewriting the low-level parts of the OS. When they get the new kernel, etc. finished, they'll transfer the bits over.
MS, please make the UI fully programmable. And "Always on Top" functionality for all Windows would be nice (though I have this with NVIDIA's drivers now). This post was edited by n4cer on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 13:08. |
| #9 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/21/2002 1:13:43 PM |
| Why is the address My Computer\Local Disk (C:)\Windows ? Does this have to do with eventual removal of drive letters and information possibly spanning drives, so now My Computer is treated as the root? |
| #10 By 2960 (156.80.64.132) at 10/21/2002 2:39:01 PM |
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It almost sounds like they are going to a "Dock" type of system, Like Apple has ?
I just hope they leave the task-bar alone because, frankly, it's a better idea for managing open apps. TL |
| #11 By 2960 (156.80.64.132) at 10/21/2002 2:55:01 PM |
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#16,
I use dual-monitors on mine and like it as well. I used Dual-monitors (well, three actually :)) on my Mac's all the time because it was painless to set up and use, while it was a nightmare under Windows. Now with 2K/XP and cards like nVidia's GeForce 4 with "nView", it's much, much easier to get it done on Windows finally :) I have a 22" Mistubishi 2060u as the primary, in-my-face monitor and a 17" Viewsonic off to the right side that I use for toolbars, email windows, RDC screens, etc... In fact, I think nVidia's nView system makes dual-monitors (as long as you only want two) a better setup than Apple's is right now. They have some neat features that don't exist in MacOS X, line window/dialong pinning. TL |
| #12 By 61 (65.32.170.1) at 10/21/2002 3:17:00 PM |
| Dee, Microsoft NEVER EVER takes part in such childish debates. |
| #13 By 2332 (12.105.69.158) at 10/21/2002 4:16:42 PM |
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I donno... after seeing that video, I'm slightly less skeptical than before.
I still think it will probably change dramatically before it is released. Let's hope they turn that bar thingy into a duplicate of the Dock bar in OS X. I love that thing. |
| #14 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/21/2002 4:26:42 PM |
| Yeah, I know about Yukon, I just called it root for lack of a better term. The main thing I was wondering was why even have the lettered drive in the hierarchy? I guess it's because Yukon is not yet included. One thing that is for sure is I can't wait for this to enter beta. |
| #15 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/21/2002 4:31:22 PM |
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"Microsoft NEVER EVER takes part in such childish debates. "
What? How many times has Microsoft told sites to remove screenshots of non public beta software. Even this year already, Microsoft went after several sites with the Office NGO flash movie and screenshots. Obviously Microsoft itself knows whether this stuff is fake or not. They don't debate it. They do, however, protect their IP and quite often go after sites that post real screenshots of non public pre release software. |
| #16 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/21/2002 4:33:10 PM |
| There isn't much Yukon info publically available. Yukon itself (the next SQL Server) hasn't even entered its first public beta yet, so I wouldn't expect much info on the file system that will use Yukon's engine until at least that time. |
| #17 By 2332 (12.105.69.158) at 10/21/2002 4:38:05 PM |
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It's a bit more than that. I feel that the Dock is a much improved task bar.
Here is my reasoning: 1.) It shows screen shots of the application you've minimized. It is easy to see exactly which application is which icon, especially when you just quickly mouse over it. This is far better (imo) than the small, generic icon + often abbrievated text the task bar in Windows shows us. 2.) It is very easy to rearrange the dock's icons to exactly the way you want them. This is not possible on the Windows task bar, as the icons appear in the order you open them. 3.) The dock's size is very easy to change, including exactly how big the screen icons are, and exactly how much they enlarge when you mouse over them. 4.) The pretty effects really are cool, and add a sense of useabilty (even if it's unfounded) to the interface. It is a much improved dock from OS 9's, and is considerably better for most things than the Windows task bar. I still think XP has a better interface overall, but the dock rules. |
| #18 By 135 (209.180.28.6) at 10/21/2002 4:47:32 PM |
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sphbecker - The dual-display stuff never really worked all that well until Windows XP. I've had a dual 15" LCD system at home since last year, and under Windows 2000 it was usable, but it had a variety of quirks. Under XP it's pretty transparent.
As far as nview goes, it does add a couple of nice features such as snapping windows to the display and so forth. Some of the other stuff it does is extraneous and I don't use it. I don't get excited about Beta releases until we are about six months away from RTM, so this Longhorn stuff is too far in the future for me. |
| #19 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/21/2002 5:12:43 PM |
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Bizarre hearing fond words for the Dock, RMD, but interesting--I've got likes and dislikes about it, but insofar as this relates to Longhorn...
Where is the live/dynamic information in the SlideShow? Isn't this the whole point? I didn't see a single shot where it displayed live data like: two unread messages, open docs in such and such an app, a chat alert, no buddy list, etc... (Maybe there are screenshots I haven't seen yet.) You'd think that since we've seen that in Slideshow, you would see it in the Longhorn Slideshow/Dock. You'd think that if it was available as a feature, you'd screenshot that. This after all is what the Dock and/or Slideshow are offering that is new (which is where I'd be pro-Dock: displaying emails as they come in, CPU usage, movie previews... dynamic display of live data). Are people still loving taskpanes, by the way? Or are any of you willing to admit they are mind-numblingly useless, intrusive, and sometimes confusing--unless you are at the level where you have to ask: "a picture? what app do I want to open that with?" (which I recognize there is this market for and they have needs too, but come on...)? Anyway, aside from arguing with the merits of taskpanes, what's with the need for two or more levels of taskpanes? Particularly, the "My Pictures & Videos" one: why the hell do I need a 3inch banner across the top of a window to offer 3 tasks that are just as common (and not more so) than the others in the taskpane on the left? (In fact, "view slide show" is repeated depending on which "fakes" you are looking at.) Of course, maybe it's not as bad as a 2inch banner that doesn't display any options like "My Documents" does, but that's me and not liking useless space. But something worth considering since they are taking up 2 inches on the left, one on the bottom, and every three minutes a 3 inch task pane pops up. I think they're going to have issues going forward with whether this unseats the Start menu (but not the task bar). They've apparently "resolved" that issue by making each accessible from the other, but ultimately, "options" become "redundancies" and these sort of changes will only be embraced if MS does as well. Right now, I feel like I'm seeing the same options on every screenshot, each offering the same option 2 or more times; something I usually like, but in this case, it's just too jarring. And the Start menu isn't offering anything--it's actually more constraining (based on what I imagine to be the flexibility of the Slideshow). This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 18:13. |
| #20 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/21/2002 5:39:49 PM |
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Jerk, I thought I saw at least Messenger buddies on that sidebar thing, but maybe I'm thinking of the old BC vid. I totally agree though, that if there is no live data stuff, that I don't much see a point to it.
As for task panes, in Office apps, I rather like them. I like being greeted with them when I open an app. I don't much care whether they are there or not in Explorer. First I know in Explorer how to do everything I want to do. Second, I usually have the folders tree view on the side, so the task pane isn't visible then anyway. I know folks that probably need the task panes, because the haven't learned the great secret in Windows - right clicking. Dee. It seems to me that your logic is a little flawed. If this is real (and who really cares), it is an early alpha. Early alphas which aren't written from the ground up, are likely going to look a lot like the previous version. Leaked alphas even more so, since they weren't yet intended for external viewing. File system. It is fully impossible (in fact the winbeta site said this too) for the new file system to be in this alpha, because Yukon (the next SQL Server) isn't even in beta yet. You can't have a filesystem based on an engine that doesn't yet exist. Until the new SQL Server engine is finished, I wouldn't expect much on the new filesystem. As for Microsoft not focusing on Longhorn. Microsoft's marketting department needs to sell Windows XP. Microsoft's programmers need to be working on the next version of Windows. I'll be Bill Gates is EXTREMELY focused on Longhorn. Among other things, Longhorn will bring with it a new version of the .NET Framework, new VisualStudio, new filesystem based on Yukon's engine. There is a lot of work to be done for Longhorn. It has more than likely been in the works since at least the time that Windows XP went into RC stages. If these screenshots are real or not really doesn't matter. If somebody gives me a leaked alpha, I'll let ya'll know. |
| #21 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/21/2002 5:55:44 PM |
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Bob, it's specifically in Office that I hate taskpanes. I hate this: I have a doc window maximized with no task panes open in Word. I mouseover to the LEFT and select "New..." from "File" (because my hand was on the mouse, not the keyboard), the window resizes, a new window appears on the RIGHT asking me if I want to open one of my five recently CLOSED docs, asks me about 5 or more new blank files created by apps THAT I DON'T EVEN HAVE OPEN, and then finally begins listing templates... what kind of templates? templates from the Microsoft website? No, thanks--(does anyone really need or want this task pane option?). From my own website? I'll get them off the network, thank you... (I sure as hell hope staff members aren't creating their own web sites and hosting office templates from them). General Templates? Well, maybe the Workgroup templates are in there too, okay, (but since I've got this whole window with 12 USELESS options, why not break out the different template groups, Microsoft, come on?) mouse BACK over to the RIGHT, click.
Guess what? It brings up the same old New Doc/Templates dialog. How does this help? I'm just trying to OPEN A NEW DOC FROM A TEMPLATE FOR CHRIST SAKE! So I Scroll back to the center of the screen and select the template I wanted in the same manner as Word 97, et al. Great. Click. Close Task pane window and hope something else doesn't make it pop open. This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 18:52. |
| #22 By 1845 (12.254.162.111) at 10/21/2002 6:13:44 PM |
| Jerk, is that on Office XP? I don't think I've had the issues that you have. My task pane is only open when I open Word, Excel, etc. It only comes back when I click View | Task Pane. |
| #23 By 2459 (24.233.39.98) at 10/21/2002 6:18:57 PM |
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Longhorn is what Blackcomb was supposed to be. MS canned the idea of having Longhorn as a point release in favor of doing one synchronized release of all their major products as they did with Windows 95. As such, Longhorn will come with everything that was supposed to come with Blackcomb. This post was edited by n4cer on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 18:19. |
| #24 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/21/2002 6:25:10 PM |
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Yup, XP. I haven't explored too far, but I haven't found the "Never Open Task Panes If There's a Better Option" Radio Button yet... I presume this could be circumvented, but I'm pretty good at unchecking MS defaults. Since "Open" behaves normally, and the "New" task pane actually attempts (but fails) to outmode the Open New/Template dialog, I began to think it wasn't circumventable. I'd love to know how... or why this doesn't happen for you.
I particularly love how some task panes have "Options" (Clipboard for example, which you can make NOT display even if you are using multiple clips, well I'll be, huh?), but there's nothing similar for the "New" task pane. |
| #25 By 3339 (65.198.47.10) at 10/21/2002 6:31:40 PM |
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JWM, what do you think this "whole new completely redesigned interface" is going to be?, because from what I've seen and what I expect is Alpha, etc... This is exactly in line with what it WILL BE. When they said, "new interface," they meant the engine, drawing, compositing, and the API to use higher quality bitmaps, some image effects (better transparency, shadows, glares, etc..), some animation effects, fades, scaling, compositing, etc... My question is: if ClearType is so fantastic, will it ever be the default means of displaying text or are you always going to be staring at bitmapped type? This post was edited by sodajerk on Monday, October 21, 2002 at 18:46. |
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